Why does NerdCubed hate this game?

[WildlifeMarshal]

Apperently there was something in this game so offensive it made him hate the whole series.

I have played a few missions but haven't seen anything.

Anyone know what it is?

[Sïckosis]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Deadman'shand:

Get over yourself you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cretin, It's a video game. So what if Paz was raped by Chico, it happened in a video game. No one in real life was hurt or are you one of those people that can't discern reality from fiction? ♥♥♥♥ off back to that hugbox known as tumblr so you and the rest of the scooby gang can gather round the fire and take turns highlighting how video games caused irreparable damage to your childlike psyches.

You are quite the cynic. Most people get upset over this type of thing because they don't want it to influence anyone in the world ever in any way (no matter how little).

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

An unlock is an unlock, if I'm unaware of the specifics it's because I'm not paying a hack and a fraud like Kojima a cent for a *demo*. The point is that it's PRESENTED as a reward. It's not an integral part of the plot, *which it should be*. You want to depict one of Big Boss' friends being ♥♥♥♥♥ and have that be one of the elements that contributed to him going over the edge (MGS4's garbage plot attempting to turn Big Boss into Misunderstood Jesus nonwithstanding) then fine.
But as an unlock reward for a game action? No. Just no. Even an amateur indie designer would understand this.

You don't have the game and do not know specifics so you should not be commenting with the same authority as you are trying to claim. It is an unlock (not a 100% unlock btw), but it lacks the good conotations to be called a "reward". It is just more information about the story and the cruel world in which we live. Also Paz is not Boss' friend, and he would likely kill her himself given a few days of interrogation. The entire reason Boss is infiltrating this place in GZ is because he ALREADY tried to kill her, but after she was thrown in the ocean to die she washed ashore in his enemies' hands--and now he has to get her before they learn about him (he doesn't and all of his men die).

[LithiumFox]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Stab Variation:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

An unlock is an unlock, if I'm unaware of the specifics it's because I'm not paying a hack and a fraud like Kojima a cent for a *demo*.

The point is that it's PRESENTED as a reward.
It's not an integral part of the plot, *which it should be*. You want to depict one of Big Boss' friends being raped and have that be one of the elements that contributed to him going over the edge (MGS4's garbage plot attempting to turn Big Boss into Misunderstood Jesus nonwithstanding) then fine.
But as an unlock reward for a game action? No. Just no. Even an amateur indie designer would understand this.

And also, Paz coming onto Chico afterwards shows Kojima has no understanding of human behaviour.
I'm not saying games shouldn't handle heavy subjects like rape. I'm saying Hideo Kojima shouldn't, because he's a terrible writer, an awful world builder and does things purely for gratuity.

You are wrong. Just stop posting, please. I already explained that it doesn't need to be an integral part of the plot. The game doesn't revolve around torture, child abuse or anything else. It's just there. And it has every right to be there for no reason at all, without anything meaningful behind it. Because it's r*ape. R*ape is r*ape. And don't go blabbering about how Paz wouldn't come to Chico afterwards. You obviously didn't play the game, you obviously didn't listen to the tapes. You obviously don't even know how life in general works. Much less writing, video games or other forms of media. You should go back to Kotaku or some other horrible vomit inducing site.

When it comes to video games, Kojima is an amazing writer. If you would translate that into books or even movies, he would be awful. But since the only things he does is video games, he does it well enough.

The oddest thing is that my girlfriend actually commented about this. We were talking about this kind of stuff in entertainment and I actually brought up I didn't like that Kojima included this and she said "At least Paz had a purpose. She was a pretty important, if even small part of it all" and that made me think about it.

Paz isn't just some small character. It's not "R*pe for R*pes" sake. They're showing how they systematically destroyed a 20 year old girl and a 13 year old boy. =/ If anything, I'd be more upset about Chico. That's literally child abuse.

[Sticky White Stuff]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από LithiumFox:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Stab Variation:

You are wrong. Just stop posting, please. I already explained that it doesn't need to be an integral part of the plot. The game doesn't revolve around torture, child abuse or anything else. It's just there. And it has every right to be there for no reason at all, without anything meaningful behind it. Because it's r*ape. R*ape is r*ape. And don't go blabbering about how Paz wouldn't come to Chico afterwards. You obviously didn't play the game, you obviously didn't listen to the tapes. You obviously don't even know how life in general works. Much less writing, video games or other forms of media. You should go back to Kotaku or some other horrible vomit inducing site.

When it comes to video games, Kojima is an amazing writer. If you would translate that into books or even movies, he would be awful. But since the only things he does is video games, he does it well enough.

The oddest thing is that my girlfriend actually commented about this. We were talking about this kind of stuff in entertainment and I actually brought up I didn't like that Kojima included this and she said "At least Paz had a purpose. She was a pretty important, if even small part of it all" and that made me think about it.

Paz isn't just some small character. It's not "R*pe for R*pes" sake. They're showing how they systematically destroyed a 20 year old girl and a 13 year old boy. =/ If anything, I'd be more upset about Chico. That's literally child abuse.

I just said that there doesn't need to be a reason behind the scene, the tape, or anything at all. So why the hell do people get so upset when they think there is no meaningful message behind it? There is, but it doesn't have to be. She was the central character around Peace Walker, so of course she isn't some small character. Her death, her torture did serve as a message. The whole theme of the game is about Chico and Paz. But in the end the game plot doesn't revolve around their torture.

I actually like Chico as a character, unlike most people. They are just being too harsh, he is a child after all and he behaves as one.
The game itself is just very dark and cruel. It may be the most horrible thing i have played in my entire life. I have seen, i have played many things which involve, in theory, stuff far, FAR worse than this. It's just unsettling and disturbing. Having ones insides removed while being drugged and on life support gives me the chills.

Even so, i like the new direction the game is setting.

[Zozo]

I don't know what NerdCubed is, but it already sounds disappointing.

[Nick Naughty]

Peeps, lets not forget Metal Gear Rising with its chopping up children, I don't think anyone was whining about that.

[Bite]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

Kojima has no understanding of human behaviour.

I think he does understand human behaviour, it's just not among his main interests to portray it in a videogame, I would guess at least.

It's pretty clear that the MGS series isn't one to be taken that seriously when you're fighting a guy who forms Tommy guns with Bees in some forgotten cave, or having a secret agent hidding inside a Cardboard Box...These games are often loved for not taking themselves too seriously, I mean they have a serious side to it, Ground Zeroes certainly focuses ALOT on that side

I find it a bit mind boggling what 30 seconds of a recording can make to stir up some steam, it's not like the scene incentives raping or child abuse in any way, shape or form, it's just a situation that happened to a couple of young spies who fell into enemy territory, which, alas, it's not so different to what the CIA did (and posibily still does) on their prison camps, the first time I heard the tape I just thought about it being a reference or a construct based on those stories, rather than taking it as pure child abuse.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

But as an unlock reward for a game action? No. Just no. Even an amateur indie designer would understand this.

That's pretty generalizing, there's plenty of games out there that give you audio tapes or background info as unlockables or colletcibles (Arkham Games, Alien Isolation, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, and so on), and I would say the Ground Zeroes tapes are more of a collectible, not an intrinsic reward

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

MGS4's garbage plot attempting to turn Big Boss into Misunderstood Jesus nonwithstanding then fine.

That's been the plot since MGS1 (More like since MGS2...better established in MGS3, I think Kojima mostly makes new games as he finds plot twist to exploit in them) since there was always an uncanny feeling regarding Big Boss' actions.

All in all though, I honestly believe the series has featured some much more despicable moments, and yet I feel this time around, that tape is an easy target because it involves children, despite being spies and soldiers above all. (According to themselves)

[johncage]

linear has made a bunch of assumptions about kojima's intentions inside his head then tried to link it to the concept of "reward" in a game to make it sound psychologically threatening or damaging. it's just another aspect of the "games are dangerous" reactionary groupthink perpetuated by the likes of sarkeesian and jack thompson.

movies have long depicted far more dehumanizing things, yet these social justice dingbats know that medium is far too mature for them to poison so they pick a relatively new medium into which to push their agenda.

these people like linear and nerd cubed have utterly zero perspective. instead of worrying about children being coerced into rape and servitude by isis, or decrying the exploitation of third world sweatshop workers, they're crying about some videogame featuring adult themes. that first of all, do not condone the thing it depicts, not even in the imagined roundabout way they're claiming, since getting a tape isn't a reward, it's part of progessing the narrative in a narrative driven game. and it never even explicitly shows anything, it only vaguely alludes to it and lets the player's imagination interpret the events.

i find it ineresting that some people have imagined entirely new tapes featuring things that aren't even in the game. i think it says something about these people. like homophobes being closet homosexuals, puritanical priests exposed in sex scandals, or in this case, people so afraid of the mere suggestion of rape and pedophilia, that they've taken an alarming level of offense to the game.

if you're offended by this game, you're an abject moron. bottom line.

[76561198064539791]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nick Naughty:

I'm not sure whats worst, whining about it or asking for the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to hit the screen.

Definitely the latter. This person is insane, arguing based off moral points they half remember someone commenting on without understanding their nature. They are not worth arguing with.

I will enjoy discussing the matter with others, though.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nick Naughty:

Because people play games to escape the real world, lets face it for some the real world is bland and boring, everyone has different tastes.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Miqs:

People also play games to experience things they wouldn't be able to in real world. What you said implies that everything should be catered to your tastes. That is exactly what is killing good games, trying to please the thin skinned people who get offended by anything.

Indeed. I'm having trouble thinking of another game that deals with Camp Omega's RL equivalent. The way they portray some of this shocking material is a nice change, in that they have subtlety about it (whereas most media stops a little short of having the camera pan in to the tune, "DundunDUUUUN!"). I enjoy that they actually explore thing most media won't explore, and that they actually do it with skill.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Pepper:

-snip-

MGS3 did touch on some things, like NAZI scientists being recruited to the US, some historical topics like the Berlin wall, and I think how close the world was to nuclear war.

It's a story about Camp Omega. I'm glad Kojima was able to give it the tragic air it deserved. The game felt like a prologue, which is similar to a demo in practice.

I don't think Kojima worked on Metal Gear Acid (which is probably why I found it bad). That seems more of an artist/animator issue.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Stab Variation:

You are wrong. Just stop posting, please. I already explained that it doesn't need to be an integral part of the plot. The game doesn't revolve around torture, child abuse or anything else. It's just there. And it has every right to be there for no reason at all, without anything meaningful behind it. Because it's r*ape. R*ape is r*ape. And don't go blabbering about how Paz wouldn't come to Chico afterwards. You obviously didn't play the game, you obviously didn't listen to the tapes. You obviously don't even know how life in general works. Much less writing, video games or other forms of media. You should go back to Kotaku or some other horrible vomit inducing site.

When it comes to video games, Kojima is an amazing writer. If you would translate that into books or even movies, he would be awful. But since the only things he does is video games, he does it well enough.

This person doesn't even play the games, for them it only exists in that something they consider offensive exists within it in some context. Therefore, it must be presented in as offensive and central a way as possible, by their imaginings. Really, this can be outright pathological for some, and can be very interesting to analyse.

Currently, they are focused on the idea players are being rewarded with such content, weaned into some kind of monsters who don't don't care about abuse. If they were in their right mind, they'd understand most people are already that, and the game as presented only serves to increase human empathy for abuse. I'd also be interested in their opinions of other Japanese developers, as that may be part of the pathology.

The integral part of the plot is Camp Omega. People being abused is an element of the camp. It was part of the detailing of the literally stated, "endless torture," which most media avoids elaborating on. "I can't believe it, They had a rape!" Didn't you hear the part where these prisoners were endlessly tortured with no restrictions? Apparently not. I recommend reading 1984, it has a very good depiction of torture in part of it, and the psychology of the victim (not to say everyone reacts the same way, that's a common misconception).

As for Paz coming to Chico, that is an example of Kojima doing his research. In torture, humans often become desperate for human contact, especially since lack of human contact is often part of the torture. Some have almost looked forward to beatings just so another human would interact with them. There is the misunderstanding of how trauma effects people, that they are all entirely averse of the cause and are reduced to quivering wrecks. Some react in the opposite direction, seeking the cause of their trauma. That was a theme in MG2 and MGS4, children traumatized by war becoming soldiers to fight in war. I've known a woman who make a lot of jokes about rape and wears revealing clothing, as it helps them to feel empowered after the experience. And I've known a number who became very sexually active after their experience. If anything, I don't think constantly saying victims become quivering wrecks is helpful to them.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nick Naughty:

Peeps, lets not forget Metal Gear Rising with its chopping up children, I don't think anyone was whining about that.

Haven't gotten that far in Rising. Sounds interesting.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Bite:

I think he does understand human behaviour, it's just not among his main interests to portray it in a videogame, I would guess at least.

Kojima has studied human behaviour. I was impressed how Metal Gear 2 dealt with PTSD before it became a thing in the August 90s News (in relation to the Gulf War). He may have researched Russian PTSD in the earlier Afghanistan campaign.


John: I was disappointed when that Sweatshop Tower Defence Game (which advertised how awful sweatshops are) didn't take off. I hoped the community would plaster it everywhere, but there seemed to be limited interest.

[Deadman'shand]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BOT Spy:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Deadman'shand:

Get over yourself you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cretin, It's a video game. So what if Paz was raped by Chico, it happened in a video game. No one in real life was hurt or are you one of those people that can't discern reality from fiction? ♥♥♥♥ off back to that hugbox known as tumblr so you and the rest of the scooby gang can gather round the fire and take turns highlighting how video games caused irreparable damage to your childlike psyches.

You are quite the cynic. Most people get upset over this type of thing because they don't want it to influence anyone in the world ever in any way (no matter how little).

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

An unlock is an unlock, if I'm unaware of the specifics it's because I'm not paying a hack and a fraud like Kojima a cent for a *demo*. The point is that it's PRESENTED as a reward. It's not an integral part of the plot, *which it should be*. You want to depict one of Big Boss' friends being ♥♥♥♥♥ and have that be one of the elements that contributed to him going over the edge (MGS4's garbage plot attempting to turn Big Boss into Misunderstood Jesus nonwithstanding) then fine.
But as an unlock reward for a game action? No. Just no. Even an amateur indie designer would understand this.

You don't have the game and do not know specifics so you should not be commenting with the same authority as you are trying to claim. It is an unlock (not a 100% unlock btw), but it lacks the good conotations to be called a "reward". It is just more information about the story and the cruel world in which we live. Also Paz is not Boss' friend, and he would likely kill her himself given a few days of interrogation. The entire reason Boss is infiltrating this place in GZ is because he ALREADY tried to kill her, but after she was thrown in the ocean to die she washed ashore in his enemies' hands--and now he has to get her before they learn about him (he doesn't and all of his men die).

Hey, if people are offended or upset by this then more power to them. I just don't see the big deal in bits of code being subject to horrible things. If that makes me a cynic then I guess I'm a cynic. At the end of the day all I want to do is sneak around and have fun.

[Master Zone]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Deadman'shand:

Probably to do with the rape that everyone and their dog is apparently so traumatized about. Oooooh, Skullface used a torture method as old as war itself to get something he wanted. Shocking.

You are completely ignorant, aren't you?

It's one thing to make rape and child abuse part of the plot, to have the main character react to it, to make it a world building experience, to make you hate the antagonist.

It's quite another to REWARD you with this for 100% completion.
Either Hideo Kojima has zero understanding of how to implement important plot elements, or he's trolling his own fanbase which he always does because you're a pack of loyal pets who'll defend him till death and he knows it and he detests you for it.

The worst thing of course is NerdCubed says exactly this, so you clearly didn't bother to listen to him, or are strawmanning his position and the position of everyone else who has a problem with Kojima's crass and gratuitous story telling techniques.

Butt hurt snobby social justice warrior detected...

[Lost]

Interesting discussion going on here.

Since many are unaware of him and I don't see it in previous posts I'll link NerdCubed's video discussion of the game here. It's pretty lengthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW1HP-JiPWo

[Bite]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Barcola:

Interesting discussion going on here.

Since many are unaware of him and I don't see it in previous posts I'll link NerdCubed's video discussion of the game here. It's pretty lengthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW1HP-JiPWo

I deeply disagree with NerdCubed, he speaks of "deep rape" and it being unnecesary for the story, but it's like it's completly convenient in his views, it's ok when this games treat subjects about slavery, government propagandas, nuclear wars, and when the gameplay specifically centers around a man with the ability to murder 30 - 40 people easily per mission, but all that is shadowed by sexual torture? so killing those 30 - 40 guards on duty who don't even know what's going on in their base is fine, but hearing 30 seconds of fictional sexual abuse in a cassette tape is suddenly a deal breaker? and Hideo Kojima being noted as "the worst writer ever"...? That's taking it to the extreme, I'm no fan of Kojima, I critize his way of telling the same stories over and over again with moderate twists to no end but by no means is he the worst writer ever for putting less than a minute of sexual torture in an audio recording that is unlockable for the game.

The real problem is when killing is viewed as fine, and any other problem is easily picked on for no good reason other than to point out stigmas that have efficiently propagated among western cultures, that's when you can easily lose credibility IMO.

[76561198064539791]

"Either this is torture porn, or it is Hideo Kojima being the worst writer in the entire universe." I am not exaggerating, he says that in the video.

Don't waste your time, Linear summed up his point in a couple of paragraphs which he drags on for a half hour.

[MiksteR_RdY]

Being butthurt over a "rape" of Paz makes him hate the whole series? ♥♥♥♥ this kid and move on. Nerdcube is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, if he gets offended by a game.

[WillSin4ca$h]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Linear:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Deadman'shand:

Probably to do with the rape that everyone and their dog is apparently so traumatized about. Oooooh, Skullface used a torture method as old as war itself to get something he wanted. Shocking.

You are completely ignorant, aren't you?

It's one thing to make rape and child abuse part of the plot, to have the main character react to it, to make it a world building experience, to make you hate the antagonist.

It's quite another to REWARD you with this for 100% completion.
Either Hideo Kojima has zero understanding of how to implement important plot elements, or he's trolling his own fanbase which he always does because you're a pack of loyal pets who'll defend him till death and he knows it and he detests you for it.

The worst thing of course is NerdCubed says exactly this, so you clearly didn't bother to listen to him, or are strawmanning his position and the position of everyone else who has a problem with Kojima's crass and gratuitous story telling techniques.

The main plot doesn't really give you much of a reason to hate SkullFace necessarily. Those tapes give you perfect reason to dislike him; and it seems like you dislike the things happening in the tapes - which is exactly the point isn't it?

The reward isn't "hurr durr r8p scene lolz"; it's moreso "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥; SkullFace is really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up"