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Now you also have to take in mind that everyone is selling ships for 1m+ and the high tier ships for 4m - 10m-ish, which apparently is considered as 'normal' pricing unfortunately, which means they'll probably earn millions.
If you don't have gold, you're probably not trading and only fighting (paying crew, repairing/losing ship,...).
I now trade and build ships etc
One guy in chat claimed to have over 130 Million... surely that is abnormally high right?
Most people I encounter have between $500k and 2 Million. Is that considered the normal range?
I run ELITE on all three servers. So say if I wanted you in ELITE I'd give you a starter bump to say Hi... Ship, T-Ship and some cash...
So which ever server you play on ask a big clan whats on offer? you'll get a good indication from there....
PvE I have a 50 strong clan, not all active. My Gold north of 400m. The reason was the L'O BP we aquired during the old events and inflation rocketed. Trades from Compass Wood and Fine woods later. However the value of the PvE arena for me is Labor Contracts...
End of any NA session I flipp back to PvE. Outpost Kingston (not K/PR). There I have Labor buildings. My officer perk is always set to Foreman for 20% increase rate and Overseers that extends my Labour wallet to 2,500 hours.
On re-start turn hours into LCs and stock pile.
When playing on the other two servers you carry not only your Rank and Craft XP, but also your labor hours. So now I can re-fuel my wallet and bulid in the other 2 servers or pass along to clan mates.
My net wealth is smaller on PvP(2) US with a small ELITE team but also inflation is not as rampant. And again on PvP(1) EU its even smaller again...
So 20 million on PvP(1) is a good holding, its only fair-ish on PvP(2), and on PvE its loose change lost behind the sofa...
So whats with LCs ? In PvP its much harder to gain XP both Rank and Craft. You need both to build ships, ships give you power... To have that cooker in the background for all clan members is vital for long term growth and wealth...
Thats why whichever part of ELITE your invited to join, I always suggest opening up an ALT on PvE....
Sorry for the ramble... great topic
Norfolk nChance
Luckily the devs are hard at work fixing the utterly broken economy... oh, wait, they're not. It puzzles me that they can't see that a working economic model and fixing mechanics such as Norfolk describes is essential for a pvp game based on territorial/resource control. Without a good economy we will never have good, meaningful pvp (or pve for that matter). Adjusting mast hit points will change nothing in teh grand scheme, fixing the economy would.
That and, as Liquicity's post shows, a wipe is sorely needed but the whingers and bad reviews have left the devs too afraid of upsetting people to implement it.
Bit off topic but yeah, rant over :P
As for OP I'm poor (on pvp1) with only 850k, but until they fix the things mentioned above I cba with trade or crafting, so that's all from combat on very reduced playing hours.
I agree with the wipe totally. A long time back I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and moan about the Smuggler Tag in PvE. I wanted a risk return reward ratio.... Never happened.. and this is the predicted result
So run cognac from La Torture to Mort Town - Bring back Mada Jewels..... takes just under 40mins in an Indiaman nets 2mil
REPEAT REPEAT till rich or totally f----ing board....!!!!!!!
I warned then that Inflation is not contained to PvE and will spread. Infact it didn't as much as I thought and for a very odd reason. The REAL funny thing is there are so many players that won't even build a PvE alt... They Have PvP(1) & (2) but the stigma of been called a Carebear is just too much...
This is absolutely true. I lmao time and time again. I love PvP but I use PvE to practise and train for PBs or different loadouts etc... There are players who just don't see the logic
there, I went a bit off topic also but you make great points as always Acid,
Norfolk nChance
(3 Servers drifter)
The refusal to wipe the server is what really bugs me. We know for a fact that many people have profited hugely from changes in the past, from the huge hike in mission payouts which got reverted, to compass wood and on and on. There is no real way to know if what we have now even approaches being a functional economy because there is so much gold and so many assets floating about (literally in some cases :P )
At the same time this can only deter new players. If they start the game and hear that vets have hundreds of millions, even billions in gold and dozens of 1st rates.. all while the new guy is struggling to keep his finances afloat.. they will see it as an unsurmountable barrier, the game will always be stacked against them. Not a good thing even in testing.
I was thinking about both your last two comments and sort of disagree, as Julius says it is at testing phase still. My old Love as you know was EvE Online. I played for a good few years. When I first joined, it was already years into operations. We had massive clans and everybody had at least 10billion...
The Jita rebillion (Burn Jita) is something the Dev's should look at seriously on inflation... side note
Back on topic... but this didn't put me off. The grind and skills all similar so I don't think players would be put off. However if right now I was a newbie and read my first comment above... Then followed my craft skills guide... 7 days from ensign to sailing a Victory in PvP(1) EU... is easily possible
I probably would get bored of the game in a couple of months. PvE inflation needs controlling quickly. These are some quick steps to get back on track without a wipe...
1. PvE Smuggler Tag... Risk ai attacks when using
2. All servers ... Reduce all Durability on all vessels at 5th rate and above to 1. Lower rates just to help the newer player with more dura...
3. Do nothing with Labor Farming as it encourages players to use multi servers
4. Special BP Ships become open after 2 months
The reduced durability on vessels on PvP(1) & (2) would stimulate an ecomony by reducing the ship Glutt. But it would be disastorus if the Dev's didn't do the PvE SmuggTag first. It would stoke inflation way too much on PvE and break it...
Punkrawks orginal question was a great starter... but as highlighted game problems that need addressing quickly...
final word... who's worth more...?
Player A 25,000,000 Gold
Player B 50 Labor Contracts and no gold
Norfolk nChance
Reducing dura to 1 was already tried out for 1st rates and the Devs said it didn't have the impact they wanted. It was meant to be a money sink for rich veterans but it turns out it hurt their wallets very little. It did however hurt casual players who had to play for many days to get the money or materials for a 1st rate, only to lose it quickly. Rich veterans can go through 1st rates almost like toilet paper so they didn't care.
Currently I'm sitting on about $60 Million gold. Already I can buy the most expensive ships in the game without batting an eye... it just made me curious because if I can already afford the best ships, with the best modules... and if $60 Million is considered "low" as far as wealth goes.. then it's hard to imagine not only HOW people got over a billion gold, but what do they spend it on?
Why keep hoarding gold when you could already buy every ship in the game 10 times over and still have enough to sprinkle on the peasants who dare speak to you?
I think the devs need to add a better money sink. A way for high end players to spend their gobs of cash because right now it seems kind of broken.
I topped a billion a few months ago. I am about 940 million right now. I have a clan wharehouse with more stuff than most clans. I am the only member of my clan. I have at least 10k of every resource and material including compass wood. Oops I fibbed a bit, I only have a couple thousand large carriages. I gotta do something about that. I have Hundreds of LC, and mid grades. I have multiple BP's of every ship, more than 10 of some of them. I have more silver than potosi and don't even mention the copper and gold. All this only means that I have figured out the trading/crafting meta and how to streamline my gameplay to reduce the grind a bit. Do I get a prize?
Otherwise it means nothing. I can't get any of the blueprints I would like to play with. Endymion - fail, Indefatigable - fail, Pirate Frigate - fail, and so on. I can't stop the player count from dwindlng, I can't reduce the travel grind for other players or fix any of the games other problems.
I guess my point is, it doesn't matter much how much you have if you can't do anything with it.
It's a game, are you having fun?
I almost forgot your question. I would say that 20-50 million gold would be enough. I don't know how much gold is normal. But the way the game is right now having resources and materials is more important than currency. Everyone knows how hard it can be to get things like silver, compass wood, tar, etc.
nearly last word...
Reducing to 1 on just 1st Rates wasn't enough. Ratio to all ships to 1st rates? 25 to 1 I guess? pulled this number out of my arrse fyi. No data. Expanding the 1 Dura down to 5th would capture 80% of all ships... again no proof on number here. This is where you'll get the impact demand requirement, which isn't present at the moment.
totally agree on Vets don't get hurt with just 1st Rates at 1 dura while others suffured. Rich vets go through 1st like toilet paper... on my 12th L'O, agreed. Most players on PvP won't get to sail one.
The Gold Hording subject is quite unsusal. Players sometimes like benchmarks and will trade for no real benefit. I explained to all my clan members Fine Woods will be dropped and crafting mech will change so don't hord, sail, sink and have fun.... still had members grinding Fine Cedar or Fine Live oak... crazy and right up to the change...
Gold is only a means to an end, as I've hinted at above. It gives the abilty to gain Wealth and Power within the game. My PvE Gold, is used now for LC conversion costs. New ship loadout testing out a PB strategy or something like that.
I very rarely now trade on PvE. PvP(1) & (2) I need mass Gold reserves for replacement ships, attracting fresh blood etc... Its the mech that'll allow the enlargement of the clans footprint. However mass reverses are not 400m as you'd might guess... there inlies the true value of the GOLD in your account on a specific server....
You've started a great thread on an important topic,
regards
Norfolk.