Geez, How Can People Tech Every Throw in a Fight Anyways?

[Gaxkang]

And really, I wake up holding block and I still get hit by a projectile?

On the techs....I can see people being skilled, and teching is all about anticipating a throw. I myself am not great at it, or at least when I try it just doesn't usually go thru.
I can see a skilled person teching a lot of throws.

But teching every throw in a fight, even unpredictable ones...geez that has to be either be super skill or I guess lagginess.

[lufia22]

Late tech and jump back OS.

[Schizm]

Publicado originalmente por lufia22:

Late tech and jump back OS.

Doesnt work anymore, they changed every ones back jump by -1 frames removing that OS.

[LockM]

Publicado originalmente por Moonmadness:

If they tech everything clean they might be using some autotech macros. But I assume in fact most people just try to grab you when you're close to them just in case.

That's bullsh*t.

Unless you bait throws, teching a throw will be very easy then.
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As for the OP:

People are teching throws on anticipation, they are not reacting to the actual throw animations.
There are common situations players will attempt a throw and people are pressing the throw in those situations. What good defensive players will do is they delay their throw tech timing a bit so when the opponent is performing an attack you will be in blockstun...and your throw won't come out, if the attacker would do a throw, it would be teched. Delay teching is strong if the opponent doesn't bait throw, it's very very vulnerable against neutral jumps and shimmies(walk forward, walk back, whiff punish the throw.) The neutral jump will not punish throw attempts done early. Example: jjump in is blocked, you do an immediate neutral jump to bait a throw attempt. If they delay their throw then the neutrla jump will hit, if they pres it early, then they can still block and some characters can even anti air with their SRK's. In these instances against people that press a throw tech early after a jump do a shimmie after a blocked jump, do the jump(blocked), walk slightly back and look for the throw whiff.

People press throws in certain situations:
After someone does a jump people press throw during the blockstun of the blocked jump attack, because if the opponent would do an empty jump throw...you would tech it, if they did a jump, then you would block.

On your wakeup the opponent will either throw you press a button. Delay the throw slightly as to not do it immediately on wakeup as the defender, you will then tech the throw attempt and block the normal attack.

After a light attack pointblank which has low blockstun, advantageous on block and not a lot of pushback, this is perfect opportunity to attempt a throw. In this same situation you would delay your throw tech slightly as to block the following normal attack(example: cr.lp, st.mp), you would block thge st.mp and if they did a throw you would tech it. Downside is ofcourse they won't go for a throw and your throw tech attempt would whiff and you would be punished.

Medium attacks have more blockstun and longer animation frames and more pushback, so the defender would delay their throw attempt even more. The attacker also has to walk forward a bit more, the defender, if they are decent, would REACT to the slight walk forward of the attacker and then press a throw in anticipation of the throw attempt.

It's easier to bait throw attempts if the walking distance is a bit longer, the attacker can do a cr.lp, st.mp blockstring, they would have to walk forward more than usually, this walk forward instinctively makes the defender twitch and they either press a light atack or a throw. This is were a shimmie comes into play. Attacker performs the cr.lp, st.mp blockstring, walks forward to bait a throw reaction, before the throw comes out they walk back slightly again and lokk for the whiffed throw animation and punish it.

After a dash forward, people tend to dash in and then do a throw, as a defender you react to the dash and ASSUME they would do a throw. This throw tech attempt can be baited out by the attacker by dashing in and tehn walkingslightly backwards after it so their throw tech attempt will whiff.

There are more situations ofcourse but the point is, people delay their throw techs or they press buttons. If they press buttons then create "frametraps" where you will counterhit them, after having conditioned them to stop pressing buttons during your offense you can go for throws as the attacker, after that you can bait throw tech attempt and deal more damage to them. Ofcourse some people don't press buttons or don't even press buttons and any throw tech attempt. You have to look at what they press during your offense and you have to respond appropriately.

Teching throws takes experience, nothing more, it's 90% anticipation and 10% reaction, reacting to the things that happen BEFORE the throw, nobody is reacting to the throw itself, it's impossible.

[Gaxkang]

Publicado originalmente por Lock_M:

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As for the OP:

That's quite a writeup, thanks. :D

One of the things you referred sounds like the thing I mentioned earlier...getting someone to block a jump attack and then throwing during the "blockstun". Including when it's a neutral jump attack too, where you land point blank.
I suppose the inconsistency I mentioned too boils down to an intimate knowledge of exactly when to do the throw tech in relation to when the blockstun wears off?

I did manage today to actually tech a throw attempt when I was waking up, teching it on purpose rather than on accident.

I guess sometimes the visuals can make things seem weird when like you actually may in a situation see 2 throw animations happen at the same time and cross each other, but someone gets thrown anyways.
I guess that can just be chalked up to when people find the hitbox visuals odd looking with normals or such.

[LockM]

Publicado originalmente por Gaxkang:

Publicado originalmente por Lock_M:

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As for the OP:

That's quite a writeup, thanks. :D

One of the things you referred sounds like the thing I mentioned earlier...getting someone to block a jump attack and then throwing during the "blockstun". Including when it's a neutral jump attack too, where you land point blank.
I suppose the inconsistency I mentioned too boils down to an intimate knowledge of exactly when to do the throw tech in relation to when the blockstun wears off?

I did manage today to actually tech a throw attempt when I was waking up, teching it on purpose rather than on accident.

I guess sometimes the visuals can make things seem weird when like you actually may in a situation see 2 throw animations happen at the same time and cross each other, but someone gets thrown anyways.
I guess that can just be chalked up to when people find the hitbox visuals odd looking with normals or such.

You need to have knowledge of how long blockstun lasts on moves, however that isn't all there is to it. You also need to be familiar with what blockstrings can happen. You can predict what moves will come based on the distance they are standing and what can actually convert perhaps in good damage. 2 light attacks is the maximum amount of light attacks you can do(unless you are chun, bison or vega i think) and this requires the opponent to be very close. If they are a bit further you can expect either a medium or just 1 light linked into a medium afterward. Often it is completely unnecessary to press a throw during thhe blockstun of normal unless they are really close. When i mention "during the blockstun" you aren't really looking at the move and see that you block it and then press a throw, you change your timing of pressing the throw on tha basis of what you THINK will happen. This depends on the distance and how the situation started.

Small example: suppose cr.lp, st.mp is a common blockstring, once you see the cr.lp you will ASSUME the either go for a throw or a medium attack right? That is what normally happened.
Now the attacker can also do, cr.lp, wait, st.mp and you now would be counterhit. An answer to this might be delaying your throw even more, and then the dude would do cr.lp immediae throw and you missed your tech window nand got throw an you would shout "but i teched that!". Teching throws and baiting throws all depends on reading your opponent, look at their timings, their common strings, what they like to do in certain situations etc etc. Better players will change it up, low level players don't and that is why teching throws against them is so easy.

As for one throw whiffs and the other reaches, it has to do with 2 things:
- The throw range of the character itself(every character has a specific throw range, usually slower character have longer throw ranges)
- When you do a throw, your throwable hurtbox also extends, so if you play a mirror match and you almost tried to throw eachother at the same time but your whiffed, the other might grab you.

Often the animation of a move doesn't coencide with the actual hurt and hit boxes due to balancing of a move. Example: when an opponent stands their hurtbox is smaller than when they crouch, so you will often see things like a move go through the opponent their legs.

Anyway, how to throw tech and how to beat people that throw tech a lot is something that comes with experience.

*You can hold downback+throw to throw tech, so this way you ca block a low attack if they happen to do it.

[BillHicks]

Being predictable
No meaties CC set ups.

[lufia22]

Publicado originalmente por Schizm:

Publicado originalmente por lufia22:

Late tech and jump back OS.

Doesnt work anymore, they changed every ones back jump by -1 frames removing that OS.

It still works, it's just easier to punish now with a late attack because they take a frame longer to jump back.

And late tech is unaffected. The only thing the OS does is prevents you from wiffing the throw (getting shimmied).