Chun-Li - What is Spinning Bird Kick Supposed to Be? I'm Guessing NOT Anti-Air?

[ChrisPharmD]

So, everything that I'm about to say is opinion from a trash player.

I thought Spinning Bird Kick looked like an Anti-Air so I've been trying to use it as that. It made sense - 1. It was a charged attack out of crouch, and 2. It looks like it's designed to catch people jumping in on you.

But whenever I use it as Anti-Air, I basically end up trading and in recovery. Now, I don't know the frames yet, but I *feel like* I'm at a disadvantage coming off a trade if I use it as an Anti-Air.

I know she has a mid air throw, which I can land 0/100 times. I know she has Back+HK which I can land 0.5/100 times. And I know she has standing LK which I don't even know if I've had the self awareness to use.

If somebody jumps or use any jumping move, I end up just jumping with them because, for whatever reason, I can land LP faster than my opponent can do whatever they wanted to do. Sometimes, I can get a HK midair too.

But for the most part, I just start spamming stuff.

People jump on me all day, and I struggle to control the air. And people throw me all day, which is another story for another day. In attempts to tech throws, I end up whiffing a throw which I didn't want to do so it looks like I'm trying to throw which makes my opponent want to throw and then creates a vortex of "No I didn't want to throw, I just didn't want you to throw, but I didn't mean to make you start throwing" and now I'm frustrated because I'm trying a 3-Frame low kick to save myself from literally everything.

Thanks!

[Sstavix]

I don't believe the spinning bird kick has ever been a viable anti-air. I am not a Chun-Li player, but when fighting others, the only time I have seen it used is as it's EX form, as a punish (and I am usually on the receiving end). So I would think it may be best not to rely on it too much, since other players seem to avoid using it as well.

That being said, Chun also has her "heel stomp" move (down+mk) that can hit opponents directly below her multiple times. Chun tends to have a powerful air game, so be sure to practice that. Get good enough, and no one will want to jump at you, because the air is where you thrive.

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Sstavix:

I don't believe the spinning bird kick has ever been a viable anti-air. I am not a Chun-Li player, but when fighting others, the only time I have seen it used is as it's EX form, as a punish (and I am usually on the receiving end). So I would think it may be best not to rely on it too much, since other players seem to avoid using it as well.

That being said, Chun also has her "heel stomp" move (down+mk) that can hit opponents directly below her multiple times. Chun tends to have a powerful air game, so be sure to practice that. Get good enough, and no one will want to jump at you, because the air is where you thrive.

Oh yeah, I haven't really been using her heel stomps. Even if I set a dummy to jump, I can't really replicate a realistic situation where I can do it reliably.

Thanks for the heads up! Yeah hopefully I see you around!

[Sstavix]

Your opponent can be on the ground, too. The heel stomp is especially effective against large characters, like Zangief or Honda. I know that, in SFII I could land 3 or 4 in a row against some characters - and being a Honda player myself, I know from experience that two is possible in Street Fighter V! 😉

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Jahy:

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

So, everything that I'm about to say is opinion from a trash player.
I thought Spinning Bird Kick looked like an Anti-Air so I've been trying to use it as that. It made sense - 1. It was a charged attack out of crouch, and 2. It looks like it's designed to catch people jumping in on you.

No, normal spinning bird kick is used at the end of a combo, for when you don't feel like doing a thousand kicks.
EX Spinning bird kick is an invincible reversal, like Ryu's EX Shoryuken. You use it on wake up if you think opponent will attack you.

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

I know she has a mid air throw, which I can land 0/100 times. I know she has Back+HK which I can land 0.5/100 times. And I know she has standing LK which I don't even know if I've had the self awareness to use.

Air throws are gimmick, don't use it. Use standing LK if opponent jumps but far away from you, and back HK if opponent lands right above your head.

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

If somebody jumps or use any jumping move, I end up just jumping with them because, for whatever reason, I can land LP faster than my opponent can do whatever they wanted to do. Sometimes, I can get a HK midair too.

That's perfectly fine, but use jump MP instead because you will juggle enemy and can land follow up attacks.

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

And people throw me all day, which is another story for another day. In attempts to tech throws, I end up whiffing a throw.

Well you only whiff a throw if opponent is far away, so next time watch the distance between you and your enemy. Good players will shimmy aka move back and forth to make you confuse but i suppose bronze players don't know about that so no need to worry.

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

I'm trying a 3-Frame low kick to save myself from literally everything.

Yeah, wait until people know how to okizeme and you will get destroyed even harder.

For Anti-Air, that jump MP is awkward. Are you supposed to hit them with MP, let Chun-Li fall to the ground, jump again, and then do heel stomps? Or are you supposed to just go straight into them? I think I've seen it done both ways.

I just cannot get that MP into heel stomps. Either the timing is extremely tight or I just don't know how to do it. I've done it in Trials, but they must have redesigned it because I can't do it in Training.

I just use V-Skill II because I heard it's now optimal, but I'm starting to wonder if V-Skill I is better against Shoto Characters. Dealing with DP and Tatsu if I can interrupt them with V-Skill I. I dunno...

I think my throw problem comes from jumping, too. If I'm remembering correctly, I will successfully anti-air with jump LP or HK and fall right into a throw. Is that guaranteed? It might not even be the setup, but I know I get thrown instantly when I drop to the ground a lot. I wont even be in recovery. I just don't know what to do while falling.

Shimmy back and forth? I never even heard of that before. I don't see why I can't start thinking about it now... is it that hard to do? Just spacing, yeah? I spend a lot of time in neutral just thinking about what I can do to put myself at an advantage and all I can think of is to Kikoken or hold downback if I'm unsure.

As far as waiting until I come across people who know what they're doing, I've had a few people who seemed like they were better than the rank of 1.7 Millionth. A Ken nearly double perfected me and I barely got a crouch LK to luckily save me from having to see

on screen.

One thing I will say is finding follow ups to moves is difficult because SFV has been out for so long and there have been 6 years of patches. So, I struggle to find information for simple combos. Not even BnB combos, but just basic follow ups to simple stuff. I heard they recently nerfed Chun-Li because people were comboing V-Skill II into Legs into V-Skill II. Or something like that.

I just try doing a neutral input into legs as a basic string, and I try following up a Counter with uhh... actually I don't think I do anything after a counter and just let it go to waste.

I really need to figure out Shotos because I struggle against them. I know to down+MP against their fireballs. Ken always gets me with his Heavy DP because it looks like an unblockable because of the cinematic effect. Fireballs aren't so bad. DPs are bad. Tatsus are iffy.

I did successfully jump into anti air LP, dash forward to cross up, and comboed into legs and then super which was pretty cool. But I've only done it once. lol

Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure if Chun-Li's execution is hard or if the game is hard or I'm bad at the matchups or all of the above. It still doesn't feel bad sucking like Tekken. Tekken made me feel like absolute dogcrap.

Anyway, thanks again! I can ditch the anti air throw thank god.

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Jahy:

snip

Sorry, I can't respond in detail right now because it's 6:30am for me and I need to go to bed lol

But this is an example of what I'm struggling with. This guy keeps jumping, but he's crossing me up in such a way that it seems like I can't even punish his jump except with a jump. But I'm not even sure of what to do and then I get backed into a corner and wind up doing spinning bird kick over and over because I'm trying to punish whatever he's doing. I guess I'm frame trapping myself, but it's really hard to figure out what to do in the heat of the moment.

Oh, and I throw him at some point. That wasn't intentional. That was me trying to break his throw.

It's frustrating for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9JmYObJXI

[Konossööri]

Back hk is a really good anti air, learn to use it. It would've worked for every single jump in that round. Other than that, use less kikoken for now and get that muscle memory down for bnbs.

[A♠]

spinning bird kick is a combo ender and its ex version is your invincible reversal (when u are being harassed on your wakeup, you can use this to reversal)

as a combo ender its hard to use since it takes a 1 frame charge to do... but its her main combo.. i think they buffed chun-li so that she can do an easier version of the same combo without needing to use spinning bird kick though

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by JJJ:

Back hk is a really good anti air, learn to use it. It would've worked for every single jump in that round. Other than that, use less kikoken for now and get that muscle memory down for bnbs.

Yeah, I do need to learn back+HK. I don't use it because I haven't practiced with it enough to get the timing down.

Thanks man!

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by 𝕙𝕠𝟙𝕪:

spinning bird kick is a combo ender and its ex version is your invincible reversal (when u are being harassed on your wakeup, you can use this to reversal)

as a combo ender its hard to use since it takes a 1 frame charge to do... but its her main combo.. i think they buffed chun-li so that she can do an easier version of the same combo without needing to use spinning bird kick though

1 frame charge? I thought it took 2 full seconds to charge?

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Jahy:

At 94 you successfully jump on him. You have enough time to pull a MP into thousand kick when you land.
At 92, don't Kikoken at that range. Only Ryu, Guile and Sagat player can pull fireball at that range. Other characters should not because opponent will jump just like that.
At 89 when Ryu pulls his crossup shenanigans, you have a few options. If you react fast enough, just walk under him. Walking forward before he switch side means walking backward after he switch side, so you will auto block if things go wrong. The second choice is EX Spinning Bird Kick if you are already crouch charging. The third options is to not stay at that range in the first place. Either get close to him, get away from him or spam HP or HK to keep him from jumping. The forth option is stand block, because crouch block can not block jump attack. None of them are ideal but that's the point. Chun-Li doesn't have good anti-air because everyone needs a weakness.
At 76 when he sweep, you can counter him with your sweep. You can also counter with a MP into A thousand kicks if you are close enough.
At 74 you can back HK that jump.
At 64, Tatsu is unsafe, you can counter with a MP into A thousand kicks.
The rest is pretty much you spamming LP because you don't know if you can hit your opponent, and you don't remember that other buttons exist. That goes the same to Ryu.

So, about spamming LP - You are correct that I panic LP because I don't know what will land. I'm also used to getting punished by DP to the point where I'm losing my mind. That's why you see me stop after a successful jump in. It's because I've been punished so much for it. But not all spam LP are panic. Justin Wong said you need to walk Ryu players down but watch out for their dash forward. They will dash forward and then throw. To stop that, he said crouch spam LP because it will interrupt the dash. So, I attempt to do that sometimes, but this game is so fast that it all happens in what feels like a split second.

I did watch some high ranked Chun-Li players and they were hitting HP, Forward+HK, Down+MP, and other neutrals at max range. I attempt to try that with Ryu, but I'm too scared of whiffing.

I'm not sure this is a thing in Street Fighter, but when I met high ranked players in Tekken, they all told me to NEVER WHIFF in somebody's face. So, I essentially stopped attacking and blocked. People would always praise me for my defense, but they didn't realize that it wasn't good defense, but rather that I didn't know what to press and when.

So, I bring that to Street Fighter kinda but since the game is played so much faster, I have a hard time controlling the pacing of the game. When I try to control the space with Kikoken, people i-frame through it and pressure me down. People force me to make choices that I'm not necessarily comfortable making. Unlike Tekken, there isn't an easy out. In Tekken, you can side step out and get away from the wall. In SFV, it's either back up, jump, or push forward and try to put the pressure back on your opponent. But I always get DPed or some crap when I try to bully a Shoto character down.

I will stop fire balls at close range. I thought the reason I wasn't getting fireballs out fast enough was just a lack of skill, not a character issue. I read that Guile actually has faster fireballs than Ryu and Ken so I thought Chun-Li was at least on par with them.

EX Moves - I never use them. I always whiff them. And I don't really know when to use Supers because everybody says it's bad to wake up Super, it's bad to random Super so I just don't use it unless it's by accident (which happens more than I'd like to admit).

I need to practice MP and its follow ups because I've never used MP... I don't even remember what the move is. The stupid Trials have taught me to jump in. It does teach Counters but I jump so much because I practiced Trials for probably over a hundred hours on Karin and Chun-Li. I tried playing Karin, but it sucks going from a Charge Character to a Motion Input Character.

Shimming. I forgot to do it. Every time I get an opponent on the ground, I always try to jump in on them. And I literally always mistime the jump and fail the (j)HK->back+HP->Kikoken -> VT1 -> Forward+HK-> Crouch LP -> Crouch MK -> Heavy Thousand Legs -> Super. That's the combo I'm always fishing for and it's stupid because you rarely have the range to land the Crouch LP and I always get punished super hard for it.

Throws. I see exactly what's happening now. I'm getting punished by throws. The reason I can't tech a throw or evade a throw is because I'm in recovery. There's a Luke player who threw me five million times. He threw me so much that I thought he has some kind of instant-throw passive ability or something. But it always came off of a whiff or a failed jump HK or some other situation where I was in recovery.

I'm wondering... if I play a Charged Character and I like to block, wouldn't Guile be a better option to choose? He's more of a turtle, right? And I would trade a spinning bird kick for Guile's flip. And since you pointed out my fireball spam, I might be able to play him okay.

I did want to go back into the replays and find this Luke match I had since you're a Luke main. It is absolutely CRAZY how badly I get destroyed by throws here. This is absolutely embarrassing gameplay.

https://youtu.be/3IT7h2ekmGI

[ChrisPharmD]

Wow I take back what I said. Guile is much more difficult to cancel neutrals into charged attacks. I thought my Chun-Li practice would transfer over to Guile, but nope. Not even close.

[ChrisPharmD]

(Edit: This turned out to be a blog post. You can TL:DR it. Long story, short - I really appreciate all the advice you've given me, and I'm having fun with the game so far!)

-------------------

Hey, I really appreciate all of the advice! It's super helpful! A lot of this stuff, I didn't even think about because I didn't even know what to think about. So, I've learned so much from you explaining in great detail about all these mechanics.

When I played Tekken and posted questions on the forums, I would get so many people sending me friend requests, saying they would help me learn fundamentals. I quickly learned that a good majority of those people just wanted to show off their skill.

I met a few cool people who were ranked in the Rulers and Kings. They would spar with me, and I learned a lot, which I was super thankful for, but it didn't do much for me at low ranks because I couldn't deal with the stuff low ranked players did to win. So, I'd spend hours in chill lobbies with these guys who all told me I was way better than my rank, but when it came time for Ranked play, I'd get bodied and trolled and I just got frustrated.

Want to talk about a waste of a thousand hours? I learned how to Korean Backdash fairly smoothly, and I practiced EWGF for hours while watching pros play. Then... Ranked... bodied.

Then, I committed the ultimate Tekken sin by choosing Lili as a main because I just did not enjoy playing any character in the game. Not only did I hate the matchups, but I didn't even like ANYBODY I picked to play as, which I just thought was my lack of skill. Lili was okay, but I got a lot of crap for being a Lili main. So, I changed to Geese Howard but I kept dropping his combos. I switch to Dragunov, but I didn't like playing him. And every time I switched to a new character, I'd always receive criticism, and EVERYBODY had an opinion about who I should play. I then picked Kazumi, who was apparently the best pick if you wanted to learn true fundamentals. But then I was told no, Shaheen was the best at teaching fundamentals. I finally just thought, "Screw this... I hate this game" and quit completely.

And I spent hours and hours and hours creating spreadsheets, going through literally every move my characters had, trying to find the fastest moves, the safest moves, and the most optimal punishes. But I still got bodied even though I could literally regurgitate frame data that these high ranked players didn't even know off the top of their heads.

Hmm... should I try Street Fighter V? "Oh hell no! That game is garbage and 2D Fighters are garbage, and only scrubs play it."

Now that I've put in about 225 matches of Ranked Play in SFV, I don't hate my own character, nobody tries to convince me that there's a perfect character to play, and I don't feel like complete dogcrap for losing. Losing just feel like whatever and not a big deal. I don't get tilted when trolled by taunts or teabagging. And I like the visual aesthetic of the game, which admittedly, I didn't love the visuals for Tekken. Not to mention, it takes five years to load up a rematch in Tekken.

I'm sure when I come across people who are really good, I'm going to get bodied, but it cannot possibly feel as bad as when I played Tekken. That was pure hell.

I still wish I could read frame data in game, though. In Training, the game shows the startup frames for like a milisecond and it's hard to read. I don't love looking at spreadsheets made by other people because I like sorting the data differently. I like putting the most optimal moves at the top of the list so I can remind myself of what to go to for the fastest and safest punishes. Punishing DP with a suboptimal punish feels kinda bad.

I am starting to dislike Shotos tho... lol I mean, it's fine. The recovery on all of the spammed moves are hella minus if whiffed or blocked. So, I guess I can just hit them with my longest start up moves and combo from there. Pretty sure Shotos are going to be the difference between me getting hard stuck bronze and me succeeding.

Anyway, I'll stop. lol

Thanks again, dude!

[Konossööri]

This combo here:

(j)HK->back+HP->Kikoken -> VT1 -> Forward+HK-> Crouch LP -> Crouch MK -> Heavy Thousand Legs -> Super.

Stop using it and never look back. This is way too resource heavy and harder to do than more optimized combos. Check the thread you made before for better alternatives.

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by JJJ:

This combo here:

(j)HK->back+HP->Kikoken -> VT1 -> Forward+HK-> Crouch LP -> Crouch MK -> Heavy Thousand Legs -> Super.

Stop using it and never look back. This is way too resource heavy and harder to do than more optimized combos. Check the thread you made before for better alternatives.

Funny you posted this because I was just thinking how trash that combo was. For some reason, I didn't realize you gave me two combos.

I think I actually remember not being able to do the second combo posted. The VT2 into VS1->1 was something I couldn't even do once. The VT2 pushed the dummy too far away for me to connect with VS1.

I also need to finally learn heel stomps. I can't go on not knowing it.

And if I use Normal Spinning Bird Kick in an attempt to anti-air one more time, I'm going to throw my computer in the trash.

If I watch another DP whiff and go unpunished, I'm also going to throw my computer in the trash.

Getting my ass beat tonight. I'm trying to train myself to anti-air properly, and it's stupid hard to stop instinctively Spinning Bird Kick. I don't even know how I thought it was the appropriate punish for anything. I can properly anti-air once or maybe twice in a match before an opponent starts mixing me up, but they still jump. Akuma players go from jumping in to jumping up and fireballing, for example. Then, back+HK whiffs and I get blown up.

I'm going to learn that ground combo so I don't have to rely on a successful jump to start up a combo.

Originally posted by JJJ:

Just checked these out and these are really bad combos to learn. Both are really unoptimal anyway, there are easier and better combos for her.

Forward hk close counter hit
crouch hp 1 hit
vskill 2
cr lp
lp legs
st lp
lk sbk
Does 297 damage/516 stun and costs nothing, works anywhere.
That trial 3-2 combo uses v trigger and does 264 damage/460 stun.

In place of that first trial (damage/stun 528/516) you should learn this one:

j hp
back hp
hk legs
vt2
vs1 -> vs1
hk legs
super

Easier, and does 538/516.

[ChrisPharmD]

Hey when you say "lp legs," do you mean "lk legs"? Or are you saying to LP and cancel into legs?