Is Gill trash?

[Dragonvarine]

FYI I am super diamond and have played different characters. But Gill is the only character that frustrates me, and it's not his retribution system at all, i like it. Its just that he gets outranged so easily with normals (in the neutral), his projectile is good, but the recovery is ♥♥♥, so if you miss, you're getting full combo'd. He has no defense apart from an Alex ex elbow copy which wont count here because im going to refer to being mixed up and being pressured in the corner (its not a 1 frame armour). All his specials are unsafe apart from the knee, but it's really awkward to hit anyways. So if you do a light crouching kick into light crouching punch into lariat, if it doesn't connect, you get easily full combo punished. Same for projectile if you fail to make the right spacing. His v-skill 1 is slow as all hell, so you (and Ive seen other gills including professionals) only use it up to three times a game.... parry is pretty good. He also has ♥♥♥♥♥♥ confirms, if you hit a medium crouching punch, you have to instantly connect it with either a fireball or a lariat, which if miss, easy full combo punish. Other characters get some amazing full combos with quick confirms, like Akuma, or Ken. Oh yeah, he also has NO CROSS UP (yes, his air light kick does but you can only connect this with his light normals which does such low damage). This is what i've seen so far, I know he's new and Im getting used to the character like everyone else, but I've seen professionals doing meh with him too when new characters who were released before Gill being used very well like Akuma (then again always high tier) or even Menat who is a mechanical character like Gill too... What do you think?

[Pawell]

All I will say is: look up at older steam posts complaining about weak akuma and weak ibuki around the time they were released.

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by Pawell:

All I will say is: look up at older steam posts complaining about weak akuma and weak ibuki around the time they were released. :lunar2019piginablanket:

Yes, but those were made by low elo players who didn't understand how the game works.

[KaizokuNinja]

Gill plays OK...he isn't godlike as he was in 3S but he isn't crap...pretty high skill level to play though. I expect we'll see just how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheap Crapcom can make both him and Seth in a near future Extra Battle mode so they can rape those last few FM dollars from those that have any left.

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by KaizokuNinja:

Gill plays OK...he isn't godlike as he was in 3S but he isn't crap...pretty high skill level to play though. I expect we'll see just how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheap Crapcom can make both him and Seth in a near future Extra Battle mode so they can rape those last few FM dollars from those that have any left.

He does appear to be around mid-tier, just that he feels meh, probably low-mid. Alex is definitely a better character (i also main him). And Alex is quite low on the tier list.

[KaizokuNinja]

Originally posted by DragonvarineSpakii:

Originally posted by KaizokuNinja:

Gill plays OK...he isn't godlike as he was in 3S but he isn't crap...pretty high skill level to play though. I expect we'll see just how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cheap Crapcom can make both him and Seth in a near future Extra Battle mode so they can rape those last few FM dollars from those that have any left.

He does appear to be around mid-tier, just that he feels meh, probably low-mid. Alex is definitely a better character (i also main him). And Alex is quite low on the tier list.

I think Gill will be mid to high once the actual competitors gets a hold of him. He isn't dependent on Crush counters like most other characters...that opens up a lot of options for him. His side switch pose reverse is also screwing with a lot of players for zoning and footsie now too if you watch the matches. His tool set is decent...and the parry alone being more like a true 3S parry is damning to anyone that reads strings well.

[shingomouri]

I'm not a good player, but I thought Gill is the kind of char that separates the chaff from the wheat, precisely because his movements require a lot of precision and training to be efficient. If the player drops too many combos, he will lose many opportunities and may even be severely punished. It also seems to me that in order to perform satisfactorily with it, mastery of combinations with "Retribution" is critical to maximizing damage at all times.

[Funkfist]

imagine thinking he has bad neutral
https://twitter.com/TTTTTsd_/status/1207152053157449729?s=19

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by Funkfist:

imagine thinking he has bad neutral
https://twitter.com/TTTTTsd_/status/1207152053157449729?s=19

I did find his standing lk a bit weird in the neutral, but it's not enough. It's generally too short compared to other characters. And as I said. It doesn't connect much with anything unless you have the reflexes to instantly cancel a lariat on hit, dont even bother with a projectile because it will just be blocked half the time. Have you even seen the range of his 3 frame? You got to be basically kissing them to get it to hit.

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by shingomouri:

I'm not a good player, but I thought Gill is the kind of char that separates the chaff from the wheat, precisely because his movements require a lot of precision and training to be efficient. If the player drops too many combos, he will lose many opportunities and may even be severely punished. It also seems to me that in order to perform satisfactorily with it, mastery of combinations with "Retribution" is critical to maximizing damage at all times.

I agree, it's crucial to hit everything. But a game like SFV, its very easy to get crush countered and basically destroy for the rest of the game because you cannot get out of it (cough R.Mika). At least with abigail you can 1 frame armour, or Alex you can ex knee (or jump down heavy punch out of there). Heck, they have a lot of health to be dealing with that anyways (then once with v-trigger, alex has an auto parry, so easy way to get out if done right, unlike Gill's parry). He's different, but that difference makes it seems like he has to have weak normals.

[BBQbeefburgerman]

Literally day 4 of Gill. Give him some time.

Some characters take a while to get explored, due to their complexity.

Besides, Alex is Unga Bunga levels of easy, even I got to diamond once with him.

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by BBQbeefburgerman:

Literally day 4 of Gill. Give him some time.

Some characters take a while to get explored, due to their complexity.

Besides, Alex is Unga Bunga levels of easy, even I got to diamond once with him.

I dont main Alex, i do play him. But he's still trash (albeit he's gone a lot better, and even more so now), even gunfight isn't top 100 (rank 1 alex), that's saying something. I watched a lot of known professionals play Gill (usually even if a character is day 1,4, 5, 1000, they usually do very well, it's kinda what they're great at). But with Gill, I see them struggle because of bullcrap like a normal not hitting and being punished for it constantly even if the opponent has crappy normals themselves. Expect a crush counter just trying to poke.

[redgold]

im gona say this with love if u have time for him u will love him if u learn some move and u say im good to go and got rekt this is on u no?

[Satosa]

Hmm, I think its really cool that you got super diamond and such.. maybe you just need more time with him, even though you have prowess at analyzing the quality of his tools.. there might be something that slipped under your radar.. I cant afford any of these new people cuz I'm poor lol but he looks fun

[Grampire]

Originally posted by shingomouri:

I'm not a good player, but I thought Gill is the kind of char that separates the chaff from the wheat

A lot of pro players have been saying this as well. If you specialize with him and really dig into him he's very strong. But he's not the type of character you sub or play on the side.

[Dragonvarine]

Originally posted by redgold:

im gona say this with love if u have time for him u will love him if u learn some move and u say im good to go and got rekt this is on u no?

Whilst i understand what you're saying, this can be said for literally any character no matter how crap they are. If a character has 800 hp, barely any damage, no projectiles, no shoryukens, etc, and you're decent with him and you know you got it down. Just because you got "rekt" doesn't mean its not the character's fault as well.