SFV Needs 1 Frame Links

[TinfoilDurag]

Right now there is always the same exact combo route. If there was 1 frame links you have additional combo routes. These will be harder but also reward more damage when you land them.

It's getting so boring doing/watching st.mp, cr.mp xx special all day. That's what SF4 and 3 look like when you're just beginning. But SFV never gets past that. Sure it gets Vtrigger cancels in there, but then you just do like 2 more easy links.

[DJukor]

Insted of adding 1-frame links for theoreticly more combo routes why not jsut skip the 1 frame link part and add more combo routes.

In my opinion all 1 frame links did whas alow LP and LK normals to do combos that deal way more damage then shuld be posible from pokes as if the game is not SF but an anime fitgher.

[-Ramen-]

Originally posted by Djukor:

In my opinion all 1 frame links did whas alow LP and LK normals to do combos that deal way more damage then shuld be posible from pokes as if the game is not SF but an anime fitgher.

In IV there was a lot more hitstun on lights, allowing for hitconfirms off of jab and short respectively. Damage scaling off of lights, especially if there were more than one light in your hitconfirm meant that the damage output was actually less.

More often than not, these combos were not optimal.


More so, "what 1 frame links did" is a jarring thought. 1 frame links were a product, not a method. If you lower the deviation between startup frames and hitstun frames so that they are closer, albeit with more hitstun, you will have more combo opportunities.

With so many 1-2 frame links, it just meant that the hitstun was close to equivocal of the startup frames of the next button. In V there is much more startup, and less hitstun, lowering combo length potential.

[them4pples]

1 frame links and alternate combo routes aren't mutually exclusive. there's a lot more to it like pushback, hit stun, etc.

[TinfoilDurag]

Originally posted by Providence 777:

Originally posted by BlazGreenBongRoyale:

Right now there is always the same exact combo route. If there was 1 frame links you have additional combo routes.

This is a fallacy.

There's nothing inherent to 1-frame links that would promise additional combo routes. If they would go out of their way to allow more 1-frame links, there won't be any new combos unless they directly allow a link between the different moves.

If they're doing that, there's no reason to disable the frame buffer.

Literally compare Smug's Dudley to ANYONE ELSE PLAYING DUDLEY and tell me 1frame links don't allow more combo routes.

[TinfoilDurag]

Originally posted by them_apples:

1 frame links and alternate combo routes aren't mutually exclusive. there's a lot more to it like pushback, hit stun, etc.

It's how you can add more combo routes without drastically changing the game. If they increased hitstun across the board that'd be a whole new camera worms. Why not just add a hard link that lets me link 2 heavies together? problem solved

[Providence 777]

Originally posted by BlazGreenBongRoyale:

Literally compare Smug's Dudley to ANYONE ELSE PLAYING DUDLEY and tell me 1frame links don't allow more combo routes.

I think you're misunderstanding how games work.

Those combos only exist because the game allows them, it has nothing to do with them being 1frame links.

SFV isn't "disabling" 1frame links, what it instead is doing is allowing a wider buffer of frames to do the combos. Meaning that the same combos in SFV would just be harder to do for no reason if they added 1frame links.

What you mean to ask is for them to add more combo routes. But 1frame links have nothing to do with combo routes.

It's like saying that: "changing the difficulty of Arcade mode increases the number of characters you can choose".

[Gailim]

also relavent to this discussion is that most players in SF4 didn't actually do 1 frame link combos. they used plinking instead.

so if the majority of pros were using input tricks to get around having to do 1 frame links then why not just make that regular feature instead?

[Cipher Esteria]

Originally posted by BlazGreenBongRoyale:

Literally compare Smug's Dudley to ANYONE ELSE PLAYING DUDLEY and tell me 1frame links don't allow more combo routes.

There was literally no other Dudley who made Top 8, because of all the flaws the character had, also Bison was still a very popular pick and Bison pretty much destroys Dudley.
There isn't much to compare, unless you want to count the wild online Dudley who mashed 24/7 buttons a comparison.

Originally posted by BlazGreenBongRoyale:

It's how you can add more combo routes without drastically changing the game. If they increased hitstun across the board that'd be a whole new camera worms. Why not just add a hard link that lets me link 2 heavies together? problem solved

They actually added more comboroutes in AE, simply by adding 1f more hitstun to some normals.

It's a Scrub belive that 1f links add more comboroutes, add depth or more funny, allow for creativity.
The only thing they do is limit the character pool for Casual and Online play, while adding frustration for every serious player, since you basically have to relearn your timing for every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ match.

[FollowYourHeart]

how can anyone complain about harder combos being rewarded with slightly more damage, with the trade off of landing your combo less of the time? it allows execution monsters to exist, and thats rare enough that it was notable when you saw it without hurting the game.

unfortunately this game cant have 1 frame links without microsteps because of the 3-frame buffer solution to the inconsistency and general weirdness that the variable input-lag cycles create. the reasoning people use to play this on ps4 blows my mind, but thats another conversation.

if you dont want 1 frame links, dont do them and enjoy your enemies conversion % decrease if he does. its probably a less-damaging style overall if the player isnt haitani or sako. having the path of the execution monster just adds depth and allows for personal styles of play and doesnt hurt anything.

[Providence 777]

Originally posted by Lord Melbert:

how can anyone complain about harder combos being rewarded with slightly more damage, with the trade off of landing your combo less of the time? it allows execution monsters to exist, and thats rare enough that it was notable when you saw it without hurting the game.

unfortunately this game cant have 1 frame links without microsteps because of the 3-frame buffer solution to the inconsistency and general weirdness that the variable input-lag cycles create. the reasoning people use to play this on ps4 blows my mind, but thats another conversation.

if you dont want 1 frame links, dont do them and enjoy your enemies conversion % decrease if he does. its probably a less-damaging style overall if the player isnt haitani or sako. having the path of the execution monster just adds depth and allows for personal styles of play and doesnt hurt anything.

You're ignoring the entire discussion completely.

The issue is that the OP believes in this fallacy that adding 1-frame links = more combo paths.
And we're explaining why that's not true, those combo paths have to be manually programmed to even exist at this point, and if they're going to do that, why would they go out of their way to make them 1-frame links?

[Cipher Esteria]

There are still monkeys who belife truly 1f links would give more damage by default.
The concept of this mindset has to be explained to me, since it makes absolutly 0 sense.

Did 1f links exist before SFIV?
Yes.
Where they an important factor for damage and oki?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! No.
In fact most 1f links that exist in older games are never used cause they give you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or are incredible specific.
SFIV was the first (and only) game in the series that used them as a mandatory thing, A LOT of Characters had a terrible high execution barrier, cause their standard BnB was in fact a 1f link.
This was the standard for the whole game, every non shoto usualy had to deal with 1f links in their BnB or Punish combos, that gave them less damage, than Ryu doing 2x cr.mp into HP SRK.

The idea that 1f links are there to give better rewards for higher execution based player is absolutly absurd.
It was an atifical barrier no one liked, that was put into the game for no reason.

Also most modern fighter run with a frame buffer.
Tekken does, GG does, BB does.
One would say these games are more execution heavy..... that is until you realise that you have gigantous frame windows for simple Combos in all of them.
Yet people still fail to do them, visuell Hitconfirms are difficult you know.

[mercureXI]

Frame buffers have been a thing for most fighting games on the market.

1f links add nothing but making combos harder to do ...

Not to mention you already have combos that require VERY strict timings (Juri, Menat, etc)

Use those characters if you need "hard mode" SFV ... The rest of us enjoy having to rely on your gameplan over relying on you execution ...

[diegobrando]

Originally posted by Mr. Cipher:

Originally posted by BlazGreenBongRoyale:

I agree 1fr BnB need to be gone. But 1frame links added depth 100% for sure.

This line alone is nonsense, Execution adds no depth to the game, it never does.

You are retarded.

[Cipher Esteria]

Originally posted by diegobrando:

You are retarded.

Instead of adressing the point and trying to prove me wrong, he insists to insult me, showing he can't defend the point.
Thank you for your support.

[TinfoilDurag]

Originally posted by Lord Melbert:

how can anyone complain about harder combos being rewarded with slightly more damage, with the trade off of landing your combo less of the time? it allows execution monsters to exist, and thats rare enough that it was notable when you saw it without hurting the game.

unfortunately this game cant have 1 frame links without microsteps because of the 3-frame buffer solution to the inconsistency and general weirdness that the variable input-lag cycles create. the reasoning people use to play this on ps4 blows my mind, but thats another conversation.

if you dont want 1 frame links, dont do them and enjoy your enemies conversion % decrease if he does. its probably a less-damaging style overall if the player isnt haitani or sako. having the path of the execution monster just adds depth and allows for personal styles of play and doesnt hurt anything.

This guy gets what I'm saying at least lol.