Every attack always countered, need insight.

[AFrozenKitten]

Im really confused, it doesn't seem to matter what move, what move strength, or special I do, my opponet ALWAYS hits a counter on me, even if I wait to attack on waking up or on guard. Can someone offer some insight, because this is ruining the fun of online play for me, since I can't seem to figure it out and the game does an awful job of explaining how to deal with this.

[AFrozenKitten]

Originally posted by Sash-EX:

https://youtu.be/8gtklnzge00

This video was extremely helpeful. The guy explained everything in a very crisp, clear, easy to understand manner.

Originally posted by Crimson Pig:

First of all you need to learn your own frame data, so you know when you can keep attacking or when you have to stop.
Then you can learn a few very common moves for overused characters.

I've learned frame data step by step, when I got frustrated or when I had the feeling I could do nothing against certain chars I'd simply look up framedata and go to training mode. Then I could understand the blockstrings and where the gaps were.

In lower ranks people abuse fake frametraps and setup, most of their offense is actually ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, frame data will save your life.

I went and grabbed the official G sheet after reading this. After reading through it a little, its no wonder im countered by Karins and Cammy's with what im doing. I tend to typically go with Hard punches since its my most reliable combo starter, but with 8 startup frames (crouching hp) and cammy having 3 on some of her faster moves, its an easy counter for her.

Also seemed to have the added bonus of telling me what I could actually combo out of, making it no longer a guessing game which is fantastic!
https://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/character/g/frame/table#vt1

Originally posted by Gailim:

hey could you tell us your CFN, and which match specfically you are refering to?

we could help you more if we could see exactly what your opponent was doing to you

Turns out I was only looking at favorites before, the recent replays are there. The CFN name is (and apologies in advance, Its extremely cringy and I made it when the game first released and can't change it to something sensible atm) FurryLove....

[Krain11]

It is eighter he is frame trapping you or he already knows that matchup and he knew what you were going to do next before you even thought about it.

Either way, you have to change your pace a little. Learn the matchup. Know when it is safe to attack.

[zoiks]

Originally posted by Mr. Cipher:

Originally posted by Retro:

Its quite annoying in this game, if you do not know the character you can even lose to someone who is frame trapping you all the time.

Street fighter V = frame fighter V

This can happen to you in any game. No exclusivity here.

SFV's attack priority system + crush counters guarantees that you'll encounter it a LOT more here. Additionally frame traps in this game are also a heck of a lot more rewarding due to higher potential damage, chip damage, easier execution, and the abundance of fast attacks with plus frames for many fighters that are doubly good since they also leave them in position to force a throw guessing game.

[GraviityAssist]

no need to thank me lol. infact just ignore me... in saying that... i dont recommend ignoring this link. ;)

https://youtu.be/-XcqDPDCtAE

[Cipher Esteria]

Originally posted by zoiks:

SFV's attack priority system + crush counters guarantees that you'll encounter it a LOT more here. Additionally frame traps in this game are also a heck of a lot more rewarding due to higher potential damage, chip damage, easier execution, and the abundance of fast attacks with plus frames for many fighters that are doubly good since they also leave them in position to force a throw guessing game.

Do they realy leave you in a throw guess?
The majority of Normals have such a high pushback, that there is no reason not to block, after the first Normal hit you.
The execption would be Corner Situations.
The fact that most of Cammys tick throws are done after one light duo to two lights having already to much pushback to force her for a microwalk is one the proofes. She's considerd to have the strongest tick throw game.

However like I said, this isn't exclusive to SFV and it was something that was even more tedious in SFIV.
For this you might have to look at the framedata a bit to understand it.

It is more rewarding, but it feels to rewarding for most, since SFV draws a lot of its elements from Anime Fighter.
CC are Fatal/Mortal Counters, just that they're even more rewarding in Anime.
V-Trigger being discount Overdrives.
Easy Combos

Also do I have to remind you how much more + ob normales there were in SFIV?
On top of stupid rewards from Light normals, that were much more + ob, with more active frames and the ability to link into mediums and heavys.
Actually, if I look at this, SFIV was much more rewarding with it's amount of Characters that skipped or ignored to neutral and ran you down, with a system that allowed you to shut the majority of options down duo to OS.

Granted it's also ignored how this happend in SF past already twice, but NOW it's suddendly a problem duo to missing nostalgia for this game.
Don't worry, once SFVI rolls out, this game will be all around perfect and flawles.

[AFrozenKitten]

Originally posted by zoiks:

Originally posted by Mr. Cipher:

This can happen to you in any game. No exclusivity here.

SFV's attack priority system + crush counters guarantees that you'll encounter it a LOT more here. Additionally frame traps in this game are also a heck of a lot more rewarding due to higher potential damage, chip damage, easier execution, and the abundance of fast attacks with plus frames for many fighters that are doubly good since they also leave them in position to force a throw guessing game.

What I noticed watching my replays was that my opponents haven't been trying to chose a move carefully or even time what they use. Its literally just button mashing and while I have 2-3 punches or kicks in my button input, they have like 12 light punch/kick buttons input in a row, and more altogether. Its looking almost as if just skillessly spamming buttons with Cammy is far more rewarding than trying to patiently wait and go into a carefully timed, hard to execute combo.

[TheBlackS]

Originally posted by Mr. Cipher:

Originally posted by zoiks:

SFV's attack priority system + crush counters guarantees that you'll encounter it a LOT more here. Additionally frame traps in this game are also a heck of a lot more rewarding due to higher potential damage, chip damage, easier execution, and the abundance of fast attacks with plus frames for many fighters that are doubly good since they also leave them in position to force a throw guessing game.

Do they realy leave you in a throw guess?
The majority of Normals have such a high pushback, that there is no reason not to block, after the first Normal hit you.
The execption would be Corner Situations.
The fact that most of Cammys tick throws are done after one light duo to two lights having already to much pushback to force her for a microwalk is one the proofes. She's considerd to have the strongest tick throw game.

However like I said, this isn't exclusive to SFV and it was something that was even more tedious in SFIV.
For this you might have to look at the framedata a bit to understand it.

It is more rewarding, but it feels to rewarding for most, since SFV draws a lot of its elements from Anime Fighter.
CC are Fatal/Mortal Counters, just that they're even more rewarding in Anime.
V-Trigger being discount Overdrives.
Easy Combos

Also do I have to remind you how much more + ob normales there were in SFIV?
On top of stupid rewards from Light normals, that were much more + ob, with more active frames and the ability to link into mediums and heavys.
Actually, if I look at this, SFIV was much more rewarding with it's amount of Characters that skipped or ignored to neutral and ran you down, with a system that allowed you to shut the majority of options down duo to OS.

Granted it's also ignored how this happend in SF past already twice, but NOW it's suddendly a problem duo to missing nostalgia for this game.
Don't worry, once SFVI rolls out, this game will be all around perfect and flawles.

cammy can tick throw after 3 lights...

Originally posted by AFrozenKitten:

Originally posted by zoiks:

SFV's attack priority system + crush counters guarantees that you'll encounter it a LOT more here. Additionally frame traps in this game are also a heck of a lot more rewarding due to higher potential damage, chip damage, easier execution, and the abundance of fast attacks with plus frames for many fighters that are doubly good since they also leave them in position to force a throw guessing game.

What I noticed watching my replays was that my opponents haven't been trying to chose a move carefully or even time what they use. Its literally just button mashing and while I have 2-3 punches or kicks in my button input, they have like 12 light punch/kick buttons input in a row, and more altogether. Its looking almost as if just skillessly spamming buttons with Cammy is far more rewarding than trying to patiently wait and go into a carefully timed, hard to execute combo.

well, first of all, light confirms are actually the harder comboes

second, if you're getting beaten by button spam, it just means that yours aren't patient and timed buttons

and yes, pressing buttons right >>> comboes

comboes are an extension of a normal, if you don't learn when, which, where you throw out a normal, learning comboes is just pointless

[Cipher Esteria]

Originally posted by TheBlackS:

cammy can tick throw after 3 lights...

She can't , she needs to walk forward after the second light to be in grab range.

[TheBlackS]

Originally posted by Mr. Cipher:

Originally posted by TheBlackS:

cammy can tick throw after 3 lights...

She can't , she needs to walk forward after the second light to be in grab range.

tick throwing doesn't exclude a little walking

[Cipher Esteria]

Originally posted by TheBlackS:

tick throwing doesn't exclude a little walking

Thats not a little walking, thats not a microwalk, it's a real walk.
If you get hit by this constantly you were conditioned to not challenge this at all.
I assume the string is the standard 5lk,2lk,2lp.
First of all, there already is a microwalk since this string will miss without a microwalk after 5lk.
She is completly out of throw range after the 2lp and needs to walk into you to get back into throwrange.
Multiple ways to avoid the tick throw are, walk back, backdash, press 5 or 2 lp.

This is conditioning to let her do what she wants not simple tickthrows.

[TheBlackS]

I mean, what do you think tick throws are if not conditioning the opponent to not challenge your flurry of lights so you can throw them in the middle of your pressure?

[Cipher Esteria]

You're literally let her walk up and throw you, without her having any advantage left.
Tick throws still leave the attacker at + frames but still in throw range, the moment she has to start walking this advantage is gone.

The ways to denie this pressure I just listed, this will dismantel 90% of the online Cammys, since you just denied them their flowchart with not eating fake stuff.

[TheBlackS]

I'm not talking about her doing a 3 light blockstring into a tick throw, I'm talking about her ticking, microwalk, tick again, repeat, everyone will be out of throw range at the second tick at best, she can do 3 before pushback won't let her do it anymore

[ART_Gamer]

These are my two cents. Learn to block all moves first and antiair. Learn option select(avoiding throws by your opponent). A lot of players even in the lower rank these days have learned option select and are avoiding tick throws. Option select is punishable only if you playing with a well experienced player. But be warned if your opponent suspects you are using option select they can punish you badly. Use it in moderation. Also learn frame traps for the character you are using and do not let your opponent corner you.

Cammy's tick throw can be easily avoided by pressing back down and then pressing grab with a little delay. Even with mix ups it is very difficult for cammy to grab you when you are using option select. This will work as long as your opponent keeps applying pressure. But if they jab and back off a little it will leave you exposed since your character will try to grab cammy and she can punish in return. Practise this in practice mode.

here is a detailed video by vespar arcade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbqkYE80psA

[zoiks]

Originally posted by AFrozenKitten:

What I noticed watching my replays was that my opponents haven't been trying to chose a move carefully or even time what they use. Its literally just button mashing and while I have 2-3 punches or kicks in my button input, they have like 12 light punch/kick buttons input in a row, and more altogether. Its looking almost as if just skillessly spamming buttons with Cammy is far more rewarding than trying to patiently wait and go into a carefully timed, hard to execute combo.

In Cammy's case it kind of is. She has a very fast walk and dash speed and her MP attacks in particular make for some ridiculously simple frame traps/hit confirms. In a game that's heavily focused on rushdown, she's one of the best fighters for it.

In the beginning it feels like you should try to contest those mashed buttons, but if you don't know the frame data for that fighter, let alone your fighter, there's a good chance you're just going to end up getting countered into an easy hit confirm combo.

First focus on patient blocking, it's not much fun but that's sort of this game in a nutshell. When you block your opponent in the lower ranks they'll almost always end up either pushing themselves far enough away that the game goes back to neutral or commit to an unsafe attack, in either case you then have an opportunity to press the attack to them.

Second practice the timing for a "delayed tech throw". All it really is, is holding block and delaying your tech throw just long enough that if they hit a button you'll either already be in blockstun (and so the buffered tech throw won't leave you vulnerable) or if they try to throw you'll tech it.

Eventually I expect you'll have to pretty much unlearn a good chunk of that when you start facing better players who can use positioning well enough to set-up mind games like shimmy, micro walk-ins, attack baiting, and counter fishing.