What's the reason that Chun-Li is still a charge character?

[Nuka-Cola Zero]

I don't see any of her charge specials granting her the same advantages other charge characters get. I mean she has good normals and move speed but that's it. Her combo damage is mediocre and her specials would be okay at best if they were motion moves. Other charge characters like Guile, Urien or Bison get either safety, damage or insane start-up out of their specials but not Chun-Li. Vega was changed, Chun-Li should have been as well.

[Son Samurai]

Short answer - She got nerfed to death and is just beginning to get her legs back.

Long answer - Season 1 Chun-li had the same moves and was top tier. Ended up with nothing but Chun-Li and Nash at Evo. Season 2 made her bottom tier. Now Season 3 puts her at mid tier.

[sbt]

You understand that the mechanics of a characters special moves have absolutely no influence on their properties right?

[IITWLLII -ES-]

Many players got used to Chun-Li's charge move excecutions, so it doesnt matter that much, having a non-mashable version of the lightning legs was very welcome though.

[wizard master結城晶子リ]

Originally posted by Nuka-Cola Zero:

I don't see any of her charge specials granting her the same advantages other charge characters get. I mean she has good normals and move speed but that's it. Her combo damage is mediocre and her specials would okay at best if they were motion moves. Other charge characters like Guile, Urien or Bison get either safety, damage or insane start-up out of their specials but not Chun-Li. Vega was changed, Chun-Li should have been as well.

no cause she is a charge char there not gonna noob up a char just cause you to dum to leanr how to charge in to combos get gud stop asking for them to mess up a char like they did vega mad ehim spammable now back in 4 it took skill to use vega not butotn mashing withc u trying to ask for with chun-li

[Bleeding Eyes]

Originally posted by wizard master結城晶子リト:

Originally posted by Nuka-Cola Zero:

I don't see any of her charge specials granting her the same advantages other charge characters get. I mean she has good normals and move speed but that's it. Her combo damage is mediocre and her specials would okay at best if they were motion moves. Other charge characters like Guile, Urien or Bison get either safety, damage or insane start-up out of their specials but not Chun-Li. Vega was changed, Chun-Li should have been as well.

no cause she is a charge char there not gonna noob up a char just cause you to dum to leanr how to charge in to combos get gud stop asking for them to mess up a char like they did vega mad ehim spammable now back in 4 it took skill to use vega not butotn mashing withc u trying to ask for with chun-li

Learn English please and there's nothing wrong with making a character more viable and easy for players. Personally I'd rather not sit in the training lab for hours trying to get spinning bird kick to come out at the end of her common combos precharging, ect.

[Cipher Esteria]

I think Chun was a Hybrid since Alpha.
She is basicly half charge, half motion. The move why I played her, Hazanshu, in SFIV is gone now and she has become pretty boring.

Granted, Chuns fireball has it's strenghts, the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ startup comes with better recovery than a hadoken and her SBK is charge, because it was always charge. Even as she was allmost all motions the move remained charge.

Originally posted by wizard master結城晶子リト:

no cause she is a charge char there not gonna noob up a char just cause you to dum to leanr how to charge in to combos get gud stop asking for them to mess up a char like they did vega mad ehim spammable now back in 4 it took skill to use vega not butotn mashing withc u trying to ask for with chun-li

If you think Motions make a char noob up or a mashchar, you don't know the reason why charge moves exist in the first place.
Capcom implented Chargemoves in SF2, cause they were sure the average american gamer, was to dumb to do circle motions. Thats why Guile was the first true charge character, the american representetive.

[Baines]

Originally posted by BruteJustice:

Capcom implented Chargemoves in SF2, cause they were sure the average american gamer, was to dumb to do circle motions. Thats why Guile was the first true charge character, the american representetive.

That's a rather racist interpretation, so do you have any backing evidence?

I don't mean about charge moves being seen as easier. That was confirmed long ago. I mean the idea that Capcom specifically made Guile the "first true charge character" because Capcom figured Americans were too dumb to figure out how to do special motions?

Guile wasn't even the only charge character in original SF2. Chun-Li, Honda, and Blanka were all charge characters. I guess you exclude them from being "true" charge characters because they also had button mashing specials. But button mashing specials were even easier to perform than charge specials, so the logical extension would be that Capcom felt Brazilians, Chinese, and even Japanese were less capable than Americans?

It isn't even like the complexity of quarter-circle and dragon punch motions were entirely new to America, as Street Fighter 1 had been released in American arcades a few years earlier. Yes, Americans had issues performing the specials in that game. Everyone worldwide had issues performing the specials in SF1; the game required too much precision (particularly for its time) in the inputs. That is why SF2's input allowed more leeway. (Capcom,concerned that people might not realize specials were possible, even coded SF2 so that any button press had a 1/256 chance to trigger a special regardless of any direction inputs.)

[Nuka-Cola Zero]

Well her 2 main specials are charge moves so I consider her to be a charge character since it affects all her combos. And I see no reason to hinder her with charge inputs since none of those specials are especially good. They're okay at best. If her Kikouken had better start-up or hit twice or something and her spinning kick was safer and hit in all directions then making them charge moves would be justified. But in their current state making them motion moves would be a nice buff to Chun-Li. She supposed to be a mobile character anyway (just like Vega hint hint).

Not to mention that it would massively boost the sale of Chun-Li costumes. :D

[WickedRequiem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

[Perish_Song]

Originally posted by Nuka-Cola Zero:

Well her 2 main specials are charge moves so I consider her to be a charge character since it affects all her combos. And I see no reason to hinder her with charge inputs since none of those specials are especially good. They're okay at best. If her Kikouken had better start-up or hit twice or something and her spinning kick was safer and hit in all directions then making them charge moves would be justified. But in their current state making them motion moves would be a nice buff to Chun-Li. She supposed to be a mobile character anyway (just like Vega hint hint).

Not to mention that it would massively boost the sale of Chun-Li costumes. :D

First, chun-li has wavered back and forth between being a primarily charge character, and being a hybrid character. As to why this happens is anybody's guess but she went from having a charge fireball to a half circle motion in the alpha series and street fighter 3, to back to charge in street fighter 4. Technically she wasn't changed into a charge character, she always was one. Notably her spinning bird kick. Even when there were near no charge moves in mvc 3 and ultimate spinning bird kick remained a charge move. The weird change was making her lightning legs a quarter circle motion, but the SF team was trying out new things. SHe's no less mobile with the charge moves, but vega becomes a turtle with it, and it slows down gameplay, something they specifically stated they were trying to prevent with certain characters and moves.

[SF_Metathron]

Originally posted by Baines:

Originally posted by BruteJustice:

Capcom implented Chargemoves in SF2, cause they were sure the average american gamer, was to dumb to do circle motions. Thats why Guile was the first true charge character, the american representetive.

That's a rather racist interpretation, so do you have any backing evidence?

I don't mean about charge moves being seen as easier. That was confirmed long ago. I mean the idea that Capcom specifically made Guile the "first true charge character" because Capcom figured Americans were too dumb to figure out how to do special motions?

Guile wasn't even the only charge character in original SF2. Chun-Li, Honda, and Blanka were all charge characters. I guess you exclude them from being "true" charge characters because they also had button mashing specials. But button mashing specials were even easier to perform than charge specials, so the logical extension would be that Capcom felt Brazilians, Chinese, and even Japanese were less capable than Americans?

It isn't even like the complexity of quarter-circle and dragon punch motions were entirely new to America, as Street Fighter 1 had been released in American arcades a few years earlier. Yes, Americans had issues performing the specials in that game. Everyone worldwide had issues performing the specials in SF1; the game required too much precision (particularly for its time) in the inputs. That is why SF2's input allowed more leeway. (Capcom,concerned that people might not realize specials were possible, even coded SF2 so that any button press had a 1/256 chance to trigger a special regardless of any direction inputs.)

It's actually common SF knowledge that guile was made particulariy easy for the american audience. Audiences like china or brazil didn't even matter at that time since barely anybody could afford gaming in these countries back then. Blanka has never been the go-to brazillian character, honda never was the go-to japanese character. Blanks stuck as the iconic gimmicky char and honda didn't even make it into the base roster of any SF game in the last 2 decades so that's that.

It's not uncommon for japanese developers to release entire games as easy mode version for the western market, even nintendo themselves were guilty of that back in the day in quite big fashion. Super Mario Bros. 2 in japan was what was released in the west years later as "the lost levels" while we got a pretty easy mario game.

And it's not only "racist" against america, america was and still is just the gateway market for all other coutries. If the game is successful in america it has a high chance to get released in europe as well so it's only natural to cater the game as much as possible to the american audience. SF1 was too difficult for the rest of the world but japan seemed to be fine with it so they made the game more accessible for most people and even developed the braindead easy charge character guile to make sure even the last kid in america could enjoy street fighter. And the sales numbers speak for themselves....

And by the way: Everybody who's lived in japan for even a few weeks will tell you that japan is a racist country and they don't even hide it. They are very proud of themselves, their ethics and their culture and trying to get a greencard for japan is almost impossible till today.

[WickedRequiem]

They're not racist as much as they don't like permanent immigration in large scale because they feel that immigrants don't try to mold into Japanese culture and bring crime. Which is hard to deny, mostly due to Japan having relatively low crime rate compared to other nations... and because of stupid youtubers.

Japanese cops aren't going to shoot you for being black, like here in the US.

[Baines]

Originally posted by SF_Metathron:

It's not uncommon for japanese developers to release entire games as easy mode version for the western market, even nintendo themselves were guilty of that back in the day in quite big fashion. Super Mario Bros. 2 in japan was what was released in the west years later as "the lost levels" while we got a pretty easy mario game.

That attitude swings back and forth. We've had long stretches where Japanese developers felt that they needed to make their games easier for the US market. We've also had long stretches where Japanese developers felt they had to make their games easier for the Japanese market, with harder versions/modes designed for the US.

(In reality, making games easier opened them up to larger casual audiences worldwide, and games in general would get easier over the years. That doesn't meant that there isn't an audience for harder games, but large companies like to appeal to the widest audience they believe they can reach.)

As for Super Mario Bros 2, some bits of info tend to get lost in that story. First, it wasn't just the difficulty that was a concern, there were also concerns that the JP SMB2 would be viewed as too similar to SMB1. Second, the deciding factor was allegedly specifically that the CEO of Nintendo of America found JP SMB2 to be frustrating.

As for the popularity of SF1 in Japan versus the rest of the world, I cannot speak to that. I can only say that I played SF1 in US arcades, and saw others playing it as well. I can say that there was another factor that hurt the special moves beyond the precise inputs; there was the sheer lack of information about them. The game didn't tell you how to perform them, nor was that info displayed on the cabinet itself. The only way to learn them was to figure it out by accident (and good luck on learning the DP input on your own), be told by someone else, or read about it somewhere (in a pre-internet community world.) Mind, the specials were so unbalanced that it didn't feel like Capcom expected people to be able to consistently use them anyway...

[Nuka-Cola Zero]

I wish Chun-Li was an agressive motion character. Charge moves fit deffensive characters better imo. On offensive characters it just boils down to "could you hold the charge long enough from the start to make the move come out".

[Dracula Strikes]

Originally posted by WickedRequiem:

They're not racist as much as they don't like permanent immigration in large scale because they feel that immigrants don't try to mold into Japanese culture and bring crime. Which is hard to deny, mostly due to Japan having relatively low crime rate compared to other nations... and because of stupid youtubers.

Japanese cops aren't going to shoot you for being black, like here in the US.

There are black people in Japan?