Most "braindead" character - Balrog x Bison? :: Street Fighter V 일반 토론

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Mittzu

2017년 3월 28일 오전 5시 55분

Most "braindead" character - Balrog x Bison?

This thread got me triggered: http://steamcommunity.com/app/310950/discussions/0/133260909496719992/

lot of ppl saying Baroguru-san is an easy character to play, I main Balrog since he was released, before that, my main was Mister Bison, and guess what? People also say Bison is "cheap";

dissert

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37개 댓글 중 16-30개 표시

Mittzu

2017년 3월 28일 오전 10시 11분

str00dle님이 먼저 게시:
Wezilla님이 먼저 게시:
That why I like SFIV a lot mostly they play own idea own style...
so every Cammy, Karin, Balrog, Bison, Ibuki and Urien plays flowchart but you don't? surely being this observant of their predictable play should make winning against them easy?

This! +1...

#16

Mittzu

2017년 3월 28일 오전 10시 17분

Son Samurai님이 먼저 게시:
Mittzu님이 먼저 게시:
This thread got me triggered: http://steamcommunity.com/app/310950/discussions/0/133260909496719992/

lot of ppl saying Baroguru-san is an easy character to play, I main Balrog since he was released, before that, my main was Mister Bison, and guess what? People also say Bison is "cheap";

dissert

He's not easy to play. He just does stupid damage off a foot stomp -> v-trigger. That combo does three things
1) Corner carry
2) Lots of damage
3) Lots of stun

1+3 means that if I guess wrong, you stun me for ANOTHER punish combo on top of the other combo you just did.

Basically, I could be dominating you the whole match, I get foot stomped and I lose the match because I guessed wrong twice.

Notice that season 1 Balrog was nowhere near the beast he is now. Season 2 boxer got better normals and jumping in on Boxer is Lol.

The takeaway is Boxer deserves his top tier status. You can't defend that at all.

Great! I agree with the boxer's comeback thing, his damage potential is ridiculously above every other character in the cast. But that should be a "warning" factor when playing against Balrogs;

I mean, I would never stop jumping when playing against Mika/Zangief. I would never hit a button on Ryu/Ken/Akuma/Karin wake up... I believe this "cheap" boxer's comeback should not be a frailty of the people who play Balrog, instead people who play against Balrog should pay attention to that and not turn a blind eye to this destructive stomp.

Mittzu 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2017년 3월 28일 오전 10시 18분

#17

Nanaki

2017년 3월 28일 오전 10시 29분

Mittzu님이 먼저 게시:
Wezilla님이 먼저 게시:
Cammy, Karin, Balrog, Bison, Ibuki, Uriniepeeman, cocky Ken they don't have own idea to fight they just fight follow by book of rule...

And that's not the same for Ryu/Akuma/Zangief/Chun-li????? People do the same combos all the time! The same baits all time time, same mixups and such...

And please, elaborate on this: "they don't have own idea to fight "

I can translate it for you: "every character that I don´t use is broken and braindead".

#18

Counter-Life Street Fighter V 항목을 가지고 있음

2017년 3월 28일 오전 10시 29분

The only thing you can clown Bison on is his teleporting Devil Reverse...which he only has during V-trigger. If you get hit by something else from someone with no overhead and no command grabs it's your fault.

#19

WickedRequiem Street Fighter V 항목을 가지고 있음

2017년 3월 28일 오전 10시 37분

Dictator's a pretty solid character in S2.
He's far from braindead, and the lack of overhead/command grabs is overrated as "weaknesses".

WickedRequiem 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2017년 3월 28일 오전 10시 41분

#20

ValDarkmoon Street Fighter V 항목을 가지고 있음

2017년 3월 29일 오전 4시 08분

Balrog is in a really strong place at the moment, the nerf he's getting in the balance patch is having his health reset to 1000 from 1025, not exactly game breaking (unless something has changed in the last week or so). I've mained Balrog since he launched and honestly he felt pretty weak (apart from V-trigger) in S1 but he was fun so I stuck with it. The buffs were big enough in S2 that day one of the patch I became competitive with people 2 sub division above where I finished in S1 instantly. Good indication that the buffs were probably a bit much.

I think all Capcom really needs to do is invert the crush counter properties on St. HK and St. HP. St. HK is a whoping +3 on block and gives the spin around crush for a full dash in combo or a walk-up Cr. HP xx H Screw Smash juggle nonsense for big damage. St. HP is -3 on block and is a lanuch back that combos into CA only. Invert those CC properties around and I think Balrog would still be strong but that rediculous St. HK loses a chunk of its bite because you can't get so much off of it anymore by landing it as a CC. If you want the full dash in combo off a CC you have to bet your turn at least and a potential punish if blocked.

Balrog is all about getting high damage from punishable moves, currently Balrog's highest damage potential CC is also one of his safest normals and the risk/reward factor for it is off balance because of it. You could also invert the frame (dis)advantage between the two moves but St. HK is stubby and St. HP is far reaching so I think that would be the lesser option.

#21

Mittzu

2017년 3월 29일 오전 6시 29분

ValDarkmoon님이 먼저 게시:
Balrog is in a really strong place at the moment, the nerf he's getting in the balance patch is having his health reset to 1000 from 1025, not exactly game breaking (unless something has changed in the last week or so). I've mained Balrog since he launched and honestly he felt pretty weak (apart from V-trigger) in S1 but he was fun so I stuck with it. The buffs were big enough in S2 that day one of the patch I became competitive with people 2 sub division above where I finished in S1 instantly. Good indication that the buffs were probably a bit much.

I think all Capcom really needs to do is invert the crush counter properties on St. HK and St. HP. St. HK is a whoping +3 on block and gives the spin around crush for a full dash in combo or a walk-up Cr. HP xx H Screw Smash juggle nonsense for big damage. St. HP is -3 on block and is a lanuch back that combos into CA only. Invert those CC properties around and I think Balrog would still be strong but that rediculous St. HK loses a chunk of its bite because you can't get so much off of it anymore by landing it as a CC. If you want the full dash in combo off a CC you have to bet your turn at least and a potential punish if blocked.

Balrog is all about getting high damage from punishable moves, currently Balrog's highest damage potential CC is also one of his safest normals and the risk/reward factor for it is off balance because of it. You could also invert the frame (dis)advantage between the two moves but St. HK is stubby and St. HP is far reaching so I think that would be the lesser option.

Great analysis. What about mista Bison?

#22

giangole

2017년 3월 29일 오전 7시 10분

on + Crush Counters make the footsies game completely unplayable against those characters. you cant press a button against Balrog, too risky to get cc from a +3 move which is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid, same for Urien

#23

Son Samurai Street Fighter V 항목을 가지고 있음

2017년 3월 29일 오전 11시 16분

Mittzu님이 먼저 게시:

Great analysis. What about mista Bison?

Bison is balanced once you learn when it's save to push buttons. Push a button out of turn and Dicator will punish you hard for it. Most people who think he's cheap are either mashing for their life and getting meatied or don't play SF5.

Analysis - he's a scrub killer.

#24

ValDarkmoon Street Fighter V 항목을 가지고 있음

2017년 3월 29일 오후 12시 15분

Mittzu님이 먼저 게시:
Great analysis. What about mista Bison?

I know far less about Bison, haven't played him in this iteration other than his trial combos. Overall I don't find anything particularly troublesome about him. His trigger can be tricky to block and he has normals for days but you can V-reversal him off of you pretty well.

#25

ValDarkmoon Street Fighter V 항목을 가지고 있음

2017년 3월 29일 오후 12시 30분

giangole님이 먼저 게시:
on + Crush Counters make the footsies game completely unplayable against those characters. you cant press a button against Balrog, too risky to get cc from a +3 move which is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid, same for Urien

The St. HK is absolutely punishable on whiff and it's easy to whiff because its range is pretty short, so you can definitely footsie it. When in the corner it's a lot worse because it can be used more than twice before the pushback on block puts it out of range.

IIRC a 4F move can beat St. HK used more than once in succession the issue is that if Rog goes for something like Cr. MP you'll get counter-hit so you still have to respect it to some extent. A reversal meterless DP can actually get you out of it as well as long as Rog doesn't go for a light attack after St. HK, obviously don't do that every time though.

Again I think the main problem with St. HK is the damage potential on CC. Because it's such a safe move it should have a lesser payoff and should be a launch back for screen space not a spin around dash in for full combo. Put that spin around CC on St. HP since St. HP is unsafe.

Urien's St. HP is actually +5 on block which is why its frame data is actually getting nerfed in the patch. Again a move that safe should not have a full dash up combo payoff.

ValDarkmoon 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2017년 3월 29일 오후 12시 38분

#26

Stnank

2017년 3월 29일 오후 1시 03분

Rule should always be Heavy attacks are 95% unsafe and punishable, but can CC and start combos. Light attacks are quick jabs that are not so punishable, and should not lead to high damage combos. That way you have to use your head before you throw moves out.

#27