Is there such a thing as a "meaty" throw?

[WickedRequiem]

Sometimes, on a wake up, I get consistently thrown despite attempts to tech (or "mash jab") it.

Is there an unavoidable "meaty throw" timing?

[ArchMorlock]

There are meaty throws that can be timed to beat a wake-up button like the jabs you were talking about. You can still tech them, though, unless they're command grabs. In training mode, set the dummy to do a wake-up 3-frame jab after knockdown to practice.

[Providence 777]

No matter how meaty a throw is, you can beat it with a neutral jump.

[Stationary Traveller]

Characters like Gief or Mika have +2 setups after command grabs, which means that if they throw you on wakeup they will beat every button or special that isn't airborne on frame 3.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by WickedRequiem:

Sometimes, on a wake up, I get consistently thrown despite attempts to tech (or "mash jab") it.

Is there an unavoidable "meaty throw" timing?

Why would you mash jab on wake up? I can't think of a situation where that would be a good idea, unless you're just hoping that they screw up their meaty timing.

It's all frame data. The throw doesn't even have to be meaty to beat a jab, it just needs to come out a few frames sooner. Start up on a throw is 5 frames while the best jabs are 3 frames. So if you wake up into the last 2 frames a throw's startup, your jab is going to lose.

[Gaxkang]

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

Why would you mash jab on wake up? I can't think of a situation where that would be a good idea, unless you're just hoping that they screw up their meaty timing.

It's all frame data. The throw doesn't even have to be meaty to beat a jab, it just needs to come out a few frames sooner. Start up on a throw is 5 frames while the best jabs are 3 frames. So if you wake up into the last 2 frames a throw's startup, your jab is going to lose.

Well especially when you see flickery opponents light attacks become rather strong. Online I see people use lights to get out of many things...if you're nearby to someone jab gets mashed.
And then I end up using mostly lights myself and sometimes win just using lights.

But other times I get throws on people's wakeup's...it's a timing and frame thing for sure, though I just kinda wing it and see what happens since every fight can vary so much as to what works and what doesn't.

A big part of my gameplay is pressuring/beating people's wakeup's in different ways...but I can't guarantee a lot. I'm really banking on them just making a bad guess and hopefully I can do something.

[Stationary Traveller]

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

Originally posted by WickedRequiem:

Sometimes, on a wake up, I get consistently thrown despite attempts to tech (or "mash jab") it.

Is there an unavoidable "meaty throw" timing?

Why would you mash jab on wake up? I can't think of a situation where that would be a good idea, unless you're just hoping that they screw up their meaty timing.

Most characters don't have actual advantage frames on a midscreen knockdown if they dash in. Wakeup jab will therefore stop throw/mixup attempts and give you a CH combo.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Gaxkang:

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

Why would you mash jab on wake up? I can't think of a situation where that would be a good idea, unless you're just hoping that they screw up their meaty timing.

It's all frame data. The throw doesn't even have to be meaty to beat a jab, it just needs to come out a few frames sooner. Start up on a throw is 5 frames while the best jabs are 3 frames. So if you wake up into the last 2 frames a throw's startup, your jab is going to lose.

Well especially when you see flickery opponents light attacks become rather strong. Online I see people use lights to get out of many things...if you're nearby to someone jab gets mashed.
And then I end up using mostly lights myself and sometimes win just using lights.

But other times I get throws on people's wakeup's...it's a timing and frame thing for sure, though I just kinda wing it and see what happens since every fight can vary so much as to what works and what doesn't.

A big part of my gameplay is pressuring/beating people's wakeup's in different ways...but I can't guarantee a lot. I'm really banking on them just making a bad guess and hopefully I can do something.

Hoping that the crappy connection will let you beat a meaty with jab is a terrible idea. Not only is it unreliable, but it's not even worth the risk unless you're specifically trying to confirm jab into a combo.

And meaties are ridiculously easy to do in this game. There are way better meaties than throw that will confirm or CH confirm into a combo. If someone habitually mashes jab on wake up, there is really no reason you couldn't time a meaty to punish. The game would have to skip at least 5 frames for you to mistime that.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Moonmadness:

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

Why would you mash jab on wake up? I can't think of a situation where that would be a good idea, unless you're just hoping that they screw up their meaty timing.

Most characters don't have actual advantage frames on a midscreen knockdown if they dash in. Wakeup jab will therefore stop throw/mixup attempts and give you a CH combo.

That's not a meaty then so it's not what I'm referring to. This thread is about meaty throws.

[Stationary Traveller]

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

Originally posted by Moonmadness:

Most characters don't have actual advantage frames on a midscreen knockdown if they dash in. Wakeup jab will therefore stop throw/mixup attempts and give you a CH combo.

That's not a meaty then so it's not what I'm referring to. This thread is about meaty throws.

There are 4-5 characters at best with meaty throws midscreen, so yes, mashing jab on wakeup can be a good idea in the countless other situations.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Moonmadness:

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

That's not a meaty then so it's not what I'm referring to. This thread is about meaty throws.

There are 4-5 characters at best with meaty throws midscreen, so yes, mashing jab on wakeup can be a good idea in the countless other situations.

And still that has nothing to do with the OP's question.

[Gaxkang]

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

Hoping that the crappy connection will let you beat a meaty with jab is a terrible idea. Not only is it unreliable, but it's not even worth the risk unless you're specifically trying to confirm jab into a combo.

Oh I don't think they have strategy around a bad connection...on their end it probably looks normal.

So like if you knock someone down and they are instantly, like, blink hitting you or like blink jumping up, they are just seeing something normal like and something that works.

If they do it too much you might get a pattern and a new timing...and beat them maybe, but if they got other wakeup tools and mix it up, well.

And yeah they are looking for light based combos too.

Originally posted by Punymeyer:

And meaties are ridiculously easy to do in this game. There are way better meaties than throw that will confirm or CH confirm into a combo. If someone habitually mashes jab on wake up, there is really no reason you couldn't time a meaty to punish. The game would have to skip at least 5 frames for you to mistime that.

Oh they can be...I sometimes have dominated people with them, other times just doesn't gel right.

Throwing on someone's wakeup is the least thing I try, sure.

[mad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3_m8pN8aeA watch the whole video, its just 6 and a half minutes, it will answer your question and more

[WickedRequiem]

Originally posted by Madaradox:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3_m8pN8aeA watch the whole video, its just 6 and a half minutes, it will answer your question and more

Thanks.
Just watched it.

....don't do anything! <--- actually explained a lot on what was going on during pro tournaments.

[Zeiad]

You can't call a throw setup a "meaty". The idea behind a meaty setup is to try hitting the opponent in a late active frame of a move to give you access to a combo that you can't do if you hit it normally. Example:
https://youtu.be/EnklWtcAfeA

There's no such thing as an unavoidable normal throw.

[Stationary Traveller]

"Meaty" has two distinct meanings:
1. hitting someone on the late frames of a move
2. hitting someone on the first frames of their wakeup

In the case of throws, any situation where you can end up at +2 or more in the face of your opponent on wakeup will allow for a meaty throw, because in that case the throw will beat anything that doesn't have throw invincibility from frame 1-2.