Pace notes backwards

[Zimian]

Finally after 11 years (CMR 2005) someone makes a good rally game! Glad it was Codemasters again, and I've been waiting for this for a long time. My only complaint is that they still use the Rally America style pace notes that started with the Dirt series, where the note has the direction before the gear/speed, as in 'left 2' instead of '2 left'. Please bring back the normal pace notes with the gear or speed first. Even after this many years playing the Dirt series games, I still find it awkward. I know it's a lot of rerecording and most people probably don't care either way. It would also be nice to have 'flat left' instead of 'six left' when the intent is to say that you won't be able to go too fast through that corner, but that's just my personal pace note style preference. At least I can adjust the timing to have the notes read early enough, a definitely improvement over Other than that complaint, this game is excellent, and it's not even in final form.

[Francis_Mallman]

Originally posted by Zimian:

Finally after 11 years (CMR 2005) someone makes a good rally game! Glad it was Codemasters again, and I've been waiting for this for a long time. My only complaint is that they still use the Rally America style pace notes that started with the Dirt series, where the note has the direction before the gear/speed, as in 'left 2' instead of '2 left'. Please bring back the normal pace notes with the gear or speed first. Even after this many years playing the Dirt series games, I still find it awkward. I know it's a lot of rerecording and most people probably don't care either way. It would also be nice to have 'flat left' instead of 'six left' when the intent is to say that you won't be able to go too fast through that corner, but that's just my personal pace note style preference. At least I can adjust the timing to have the notes read early enough, a definitely improvement over Other than that complaint, this game is excellent, and it's not even in final form.

Wow, we're really getting down to the nitty gritty here.

[Squad Rallying]

Originally posted by Zimian:

Finally after 11 years (CMR 2005) someone makes a good rally game! Glad it was Codemasters again, and I've been waiting for this for a long time. My only complaint is that they still use the Rally America style pace notes that started with the Dirt series, where the note has the direction before the gear/speed, as in 'left 2' instead of '2 left'. Please bring back the normal pace notes with the gear or speed first. Even after this many years playing the Dirt series games, I still find it awkward. I know it's a lot of rerecording and most people probably don't care either way. It would also be nice to have 'flat left' instead of 'six left' when the intent is to say that you won't be able to go too fast through that corner, but that's just my personal pace note style preference. At least I can adjust the timing to have the notes read early enough, a definitely improvement over Other than that complaint, this game is excellent, and it's not even in final form.

I used to codrive on national events in the UK where you can buy "route notes" the route notes used on Dirt Rally are very realistic, as the guy who reads them Paul Coleman also has used the same notes.

You can buy those route notes in many formats including number first and direction second and visa versa, I'm like you I prefer number first so I know how fast I need to go then the direction comes second.

So your point is valid as its a real life option, but its also down to choice and maybe Paul Coleman prefers direction first then number.

[Randomheppu]

Finnish pace notes are mostly direction first and then tighness. Tighness is words and we use lot of subscriptions what are used many other country drivers. One of the best known is "kirraa". Our rising rally star use finnish, french and english in his pace notes. There is not the most realistic way in pace notes :)

I really hope to have posibility to record pace notes of my own. Then I can give pace notes like I have to Kailajärvi and it start this way: "Crest Right side, Left Full Minus into Crest Right Side Full, Crest Left Bend Into Left Fast Plus Continues Into Left Fast" It's in Finnish in my book, but this is as well as I can translate.

[Zimian]

Originally posted by Stop changing your username!:

Originally posted by Zimian:

Finally after 11 years (CMR 2005) someone makes a good rally game! Glad it was Codemasters again, and I've been waiting for this for a long time. My only complaint is that they still use the Rally America style pace notes that started with the Dirt series, where the note has the direction before the gear/speed, as in 'left 2' instead of '2 left'. Please bring back the normal pace notes with the gear or speed first. Even after this many years playing the Dirt series games, I still find it awkward. I know it's a lot of rerecording and most people probably don't care either way. It would also be nice to have 'flat left' instead of 'six left' when the intent is to say that you won't be able to go too fast through that corner, but that's just my personal pace note style preference. At least I can adjust the timing to have the notes read early enough, a definitely improvement over Other than that complaint, this game is excellent, and it's not even in final form.

Wow, we're really getting down to the nitty gritty here.

Nitty gritty indeed! That's how good this game is already that I can't find anything else to mention. For me it's been a source of minor petty irritation since the first Dirt game. There are almost as many pace note preferences as there are drivers so I just need to get used to it. Would be ideal to have an option to choose the format to an extent. Even with this characteristic, the pace notes are excellent and flow well. It's been a long time since I could play a rally game where I could actually follow and use the pace notes rather than mostly ignore them and simply drive to what I see on the screen. Way more fun being able to use the notes. I think if I'd learnt driving to notes with the direction first, I'd probably have complained about the earlier Codemasters games with the speed first.

[86TMH]

Originally posted by Zimian:

Originally posted by Stop changing your username!:

Wow, we're really getting down to the nitty gritty here.

Nitty gritty indeed! That's how good this game is already that I can't find anything else to mention. For me it's been a source of minor petty irritation since the first Dirt game. There are almost as many pace note preferences as there are drivers so I just need to get used to it. Would be ideal to have an option to choose the format to an extent. Even with this characteristic, the pace notes are excellent and flow well. It's been a long time since I could play a rally game where I could actually follow and use the pace notes rather than mostly ignore them and simply drive to what I see on the screen. Way more fun being able to use the notes. I think if I'd learnt driving to notes with the direction first, I'd probably have complained about the earlier Codemasters games with the speed first.

I actually commented earlier and deleted my comment because i was completely wrong. I went through old footage of Colin McRae 2-4, watched onboards of Colin Mcrae and Elvin Evans (spelt that wrong no doubt). And i couldn't picture what you meant. It wasn't till i loaded a Dirt Rally video that i realized your point. I never realized that he called the notes (to you, some including me) backwards. I guess i got used to it.

But 100+ hours later and still when i talk about the game i use the ''i hate that 4 left don't cut tightens into 3 right'' when really it's a ''left 4 don't cut tightens into right 3''.

That's weird that i have never questioned the calls. Always assumed they were ''and 4 left into 3 right tightens''. Mind Blown

[Randomheppu]

There is a reason for direction first.
DR "40 left 4"
ME "4 left Full minus"
First number is lenght of a straight.

Problem cames now when we flip number to front of curve: "40 4 left"

Also when co driver is late, atleast driver knows the direction. If missed the speed note he will hook in the blind spot.

Remember that pace notes are personal for every driver. I just explained why I use direction first.

[Squad Rallying]

Originally posted by Fisu FIN:

There is a reason for direction first.
DR "40 left 4"
ME "4 left Full minus"
First number is lenght of a straight.

Problem cames now when we flip number to front of curve: "40 4 left"

Also when co driver is late, atleast driver knows the direction. If missed the speed note he will hook in the blind spot.

Remember that pace notes are personal for every driver. I just explained why I use direction first.

My view is if the codriver is late I like to know the angle of the corner so I can brake quickly, the turn will then come.

It's all about personal preference, I have used route notes in several format's including both formats as discussed here.

On a whole the notes in the game are exceptional and you can really push to them, although I would like to add a few more "cautions" "deceptive" in the Finland notes!

[Terablick]

Personally I am confused by any of those two "WRC like" types, because I am rallying in real life (in national or international championships, but not WRC) for around 21-22 years, using Czech (or maybe "oldschool") notes, which are different from both of those types. We are using direction first, like many games or drivers, but followed by numbers 1 to 9, where the higher number is a higher angle of turn. Number 5 is around 90° degree, and number 3 is around 45° degree (any number may be specified by some word/words after it, but mostly isn't, except opens, tightens, "to", "followed by" (in czech language those words are "do" and "váže", so short words), etc.). Number 1 is close to a straight route, and mostly is not used at all on visible parts of track. Number 9 is a tight turn (mostly using a handbrake) around some small object, like a cone, curb, barrel, or straw bale, and number 8 is same, but around bigger object, where handbrake mostly isn´t used (AWD/RWD cars using powerslide there). So the whole system I am used to using is reverse, which is highly confusing. So I will very welcome if there will be an option to change/reverse/make "my own" pace notes at all... 6 steps will be fine, because our numbers 8 and 9 are specific, and can be fully replaced by some words or something, and if there will be 6 or 7 steps of turns is close to same :) Just allow me to reverse the stepping pacenote numbers low to high number for small to high angle of turn, instead of high to low (gear/WRC system), because I really do not want to learn two different systems, and may be confused in real life rally :) System which I am using is most common system in any no-WRC rally championships, including all hobby, amateur, and semi-pro series around Europe, and probably the whole world, so it is much more used than WRC style at all... Same in history of rallying at all... Before WRC era that "gear type" of pacenote wasn´t used so much... So using it in any historic cars (before WRC) is misleading, and historically untrue :)

PS: gear/angle number first is a bit impractical, because if I hear left or right first, I can start "turn" (prepare to...) the right side, before I hear "how much" it will be... Gearing is for example on gravel much faster than steering, so I need to know which side to steer, sooner than on wich gear, or how tight the turn will be... :)

[CarDr]

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/tutorial-how-to-modify-co-driver-callouts.115956/

Originally posted by Terablick:

....... So I will very welcome if there will be an option to change/reverse/make "my own" pace notes at all... ...

[Terablick]

Thanks man :) It looks a bit complicated, and I mean rather some in-game option, but it could work too :) Thank you :)

[Randomheppu]

I did not ever used to those co-drivers in DR1 and DR2. So I made co-driver of my own. I co-drived also about 20. This year I won a second time a rally championship in Finland.

But here is a video about the co-driver I made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daJocPqo0Oc

[Terablick]

Great :) Congratulations :) And that co-driver calls you made sounds very good for me, but I sadly does not understand language :D. But probably this is something I am looking for, I think :) Great job :)

[Randomheppu]

In my co-driver software I can use wav-file and pacenotes are saved to txt-file. So I can use language AND pacenotes of my own.

[Terablick]

Yes, it is great :) If I will have much time, I will try to do something simillar :)