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The reason why it's never balanced is because it's by design. The only way to do it properly is to provide at least some separation between the two and the best way to do so is to have separate stat and ability templates for PvE and PvP.
It's by design because it serves to divide the playerbase. Even if you have good developers, they know that no matter what they do, there will always be someone that's unhappy. What better way to deal with that then to create a hostile environment between PvE and PvP players through the nerf and buff rollercoaster.
Lastly, PvP isn't meant to be about headhunting. If you are going off on your own and get gibbed by a stealth character - oh well. I can't speak for whatever class you play, but I can tell you that most classes have clear counters against NBs. Whether solo or in a group, my templar, sorcerer or hunter tears through them like a fat kid tears through halloween candy.
Will there be perfection ? No, perfection does not excist and the more complicated the games the harder to balance it
The bare minimum of balancing would be to prevent content of becoming useless
Frustrated players do not stay and do not pay. So that is also wrong.
PvP in games is about competition with fun and limited frustration. That is why full-loot mmos are - and probably always will be- a niche genre. It is all about the fun/excitement/adrenaline, rofl
Frustration and insults etc after bg matches are btw a big problem in ESO. Everyone who killed some people a few times in a row has had the pleasure of getting insulted in pms, getting reported or even threats. And no, people doing that never get banned.
The frustration of not being able to decide what kind of PvP to do anymore is also big- hence people constantly go for kills even though 80% of the BGs are no deathmatches, so kills give pretty much no rewards.
I have 36 chars (not counting deleted cp chars here), done literally thousands of bg matches since 2015 (or so) and played all classes. I don´t really care much about PvE (especially if there is no challenge). I am a hardcore mmo and PvP player- but ESOs PvP is by far the most toxic I have ever experienced. If you do alot of PvP in ESO- disabling pms or the ignore-list is basicially a must-have with this game.
The counters against stealth/NBs are not within class-abilities though ?
Groups often do not matter. Here are a few examples of why:
A: random BGs means random teammates + random BG-moduses (deathmatch, relic etc). capture the relic is btw another example of bad balancing since stealth characters have a massive advantage stealing relics etc
B. no roles also means no support of each other by the classes/skills. 90% of the time everyone just does their dmg... healers in BGs are basicially unicorns. There are no tank- or buff-roles/classes. The behaviour/playstyle doesn´t really change much between classes
C. even with groups, decent NBs are enough to pick out and kill group members + escape with stealth. Ultis often mean instant death. Merciless does often around 10-15k dmg. Your antistealth skills won´t even work against ranged NBs since the anti-stealth range is waaaaay lower than the attack-range. That gets worse in cyro (passive skills)
D. Like I wrote. Nowadays 50%+ of ALL players in BGs are often NBs. That also means that whole groups of players in stealth run around and gank together
I, personally, will also just continue to hunt people with maxed out NBs.... Is that fun ? Nope- long skill-based PvP battles of action-reaction are what would be fun. Is it more effective than other classes ? Yes... Will I pay real money for such a game/experience ?Nope, subscription for all acounts is and will stay cancelled till they fix stuff, putting my money in Pax dei and Ashes of Creation instead... Could things be different/fixed ? yeah... in theory, if the devs would start caring about their game
Solved
I wrote that already, right above your post. And no, nothing is solved since the PvP is broken.
Should everyone run around in stealth ? 1 class out of 7 available for pvp ?
1 armor-option instead of 3 for pvp ? 20 sets and a few skills instead of hundreds ?
This means 80% of the games content (gear,skills, etc) would be a waste of code and time.
It is solved when it is fixed. Otherwise this game will just die even faster....
Looks like low tier mmr issue.
Skilled players on NB usually not fully rely on stealth.
"Classic rogue" class exists since the first MMOs was out. And it not designed for "fair fights" that's a core about that class and players who chose it. Learn to counter it, there are plenty of ways to do it with any class. in this game.
Pro tip - all pvp designed around group cooperation, not solo or "1v1 or p*ssy" style. PvP players in ESO want to be good in all aspects at same time, aka having good utility, survivability, tankiness and damage in same time and that's what make PvP in this game boring and primitive. If you gain something - you must lose something, that called a strict build and strict role. All hardcore and actually "skill" based MMOs builded and balanced around class difference, it also make social aspects more important and require players to cooperate with each other.
Running solo and getting wrekt from gankers - only yours issue.
Teammates was around and not saved you by insta switching on ganker? - same skill issue, learn to prioritize (from your random teammates of course).
NB one of the hardest classes to master, only few players can utilize that class properly. If you you struggle against glass cannon build 23k hp ganker in a modern game reality - it is a 100% skill issue.
P.S.
1. Remove cast time from incap strike already, people who started to strip and rework class skills after 2019 have no clue what they doing, they did some good changes for sure, but for PvE only, for PvP it only getting worse.
2. Bring back 3rd skill bar on Overload ultimate for sorcerer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
About 20-30 sets are usefull rn. The rest is off-meta. This is how ZoS developes their game. Dont play if you dont like because developers wont make things better anytime soon.
Also they do not care about your opinion. Why? Because they banned people on live-strean who just mentioned "pvp" We are talking about people like thiese...
"mmr issue"- no clue what that means
Otherwise, alot of interpretations.... ;) I don´t really need much saving and I am usually one of the highest ranked guys in PvP and try to help the rest of the team - but that doesn´t mean that I don´t see massive problems with the design and balancing.
Like I said: I find the ganking-playstyle boring and prefer other classes in eso. BUT I also think it is by far one of the easiest classes to get a good kill-death-ratio. You can just check out a few BG-matches, NBs often have some of the best death-kill ratios- even though the players are often not that good... there is a reason for that ;)
Stealth is the only skill in game that gives you 100% immunity to most attacks in game. That is broken. To fix this single target-attacks need to be able to be used without a visible target required- like aoe or ha/la.
"All hardcore and actually "skill" based MMOs builded and balanced around class difference, it also make social aspects more important and require players to cooperate with each other. " Yeah, I agree here. ESO is lacking roles, leading to simliar playstyles for all classes and no strategies/cooperation (as mentioned above). Everyone is everything and nothing. Not many options to specialize.
"Classic rogue" class exists since the first MMOs was out. And it not designed for "fair fights"
- no, stealth classes are balanced. You get the advantage of the first hit, normally for the price of a harder fight afterwards (ligther armor, bad healing skills or whatever).
That is not the case in ESO though. NBs have some of the highest bonuses on dmg, alot of protection (stealth immunity and they can, in theory, run around in heavy armor) + have some of the best self heals in game. They are btw also the only class that has some anti-stealth measures build into class skills...
"NB one of the hardest classes to master, only few players can utilize that class properly. If you you struggle against glass cannon build 23k hp ganker in a modern game reality - it is a 100% skill issue."
- Nope, it is one of the most forgiving classes in eso since stealth saves more lifes than any heals.
And just rofl. Skill doesn´t matter much when a 20k one-shot-build in stealth can kill a tanky 40k health guy within 1 second. You simply won´t have any chances to show skill when you are dead. You can see that btw for real in game or in countless videos on youtube etc.
The combat of eso is based on a actio-reactio-design. The last part is broken thanks to errors in the game design (animation cancelling never got fixed or turned into actual combat-design) or bad balancing
"3rd skill bar on Overload ultimate for sorcerer"
The whole bar-thing is just st*pid. Seems like people didn´t even care enough to create an UI for PC. They should change the UI in general. A third bar only for one class would make the balancing just way worse- again...
I find it silly that they introduced a mythic for players that don´t like bar-swapping- instead of fixing the problem at its roots by changing the UI (options)
My point: with good design and balancing existing content shouldn´t be useless. Light armor for example is a whole type of armor- which should, at least, be useful for something... But it isn´t really... Same with many skills etc.
And yeah, I know about the bans. Not sure it was only pvp-spams on the stream though...
Yes I am serious. Stealth isn´t the only problem, I nevr said that- BUT it is one big problem, that is actually easy to fix.
Arcanists are not well balanced, but are, in my opinion, not as bad.
Proc-Sets, or the impact of sets in general, are not great... every class is using them- which makes it actually bad but somewhat balanced. It isn´t the same with stealth....
I do pretty much nothing but PvP in MMOs and Multiplayer-Games. That includes 8-10.000 hours in ESO, I should have player-kills in the tens of thousands, I am normally one of the highest ranked PvP players on the european server- and have been for years.
Don´t get me wrong, I have worked on games before and see a problem with the game-design, tons of flaws and a dark/no future for ESO- but I definitely don´t have problems killing people in PvP. But please, explain PvP to me great master.... ;)
My point was to discuss the broken PvP, especially the problem with stealth so that it might, hopefully, get fixed one day....
-But this whole discussion seems to be pointless. It won´t go anywhere productive it seems. So... see u on the battlefield, 2 weeks of boring/unbalanced slaugther, again, I guess....*sigh*
Try WoW or GW2 its pretty balanced there compared to ESO clown fiesta just spamming TWO buttons only with NO COOLDOWN and near infinite resources at times lol.