Fake roles are killing the fun of eso

[xfce1976]

How many times playing random dungeon u like to start soon your role but you cant start fast,so you get fake role and change your main role in another one not yours.
These players are killing the fun to play a random in group! STOP PLEASE,why YOU STOP the fun to play this game.If a dungeon in group can be fun,now you must to kick them or left group why these idiots dont understand.
And players that plays eso since years must to left group or stay until the end.

[Elendir Blue]

Początkowo opublikowane przez nonameyet:

Początkowo opublikowane przez xfce1976:

Maybe any players dont know how to play veteran dungeons but to play a normal dungeon?need to be a good dd?

A lot of this discussion is a moot point for normal dungeons, especially the ones that unlock at low levels. Unless you get stuck with 3 low level new players, you'll be able to finish the dungeon, even without a tank and with low dps. However, there never fails to be some Sorcerer that thinks Crystal Shard is a spammable. Even 2-5000 dps can clear the dungeon but it's much slower. It's a different story for DLC dungeons which are as hard on normal as a veteran base-game dungeon, and players queueing for daily random normals can queue into these so you get stuck with some players that really aren't capable at their role.

So you think Crystal Shard morphs aren't spammable? Funny :)

[nonameyet]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Elendir Blue:

So you think Crystal Shard morphs aren't spammable? Funny :)

No, I was referring to someone spamming the base ability. You can't spam the increased power cheaper shards since they just don't activate sometimes and crystal weapon is a whole different ability.

[nonameyet]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Question Mark:

The whole system is just broken. Roles are not much of a thing in eso. Everyone is everything and nothing. For normal dungeons it doesn´t matter and often you will be faster with just dds.... - and yet the system says that u need exactly 2 dds, 1 healer and 1 tank to start a dungeon....

Sooooo..... without people getting fake roles EVERYONE would need to queue way longer

Questions that should be asked:
Why 2 dd, 1 tank, 1 healer of instead of just 4 people as requirement ?
Why do only random dungeons give daily quest rewards and not any-dungeon-run ?
etc.

The list goes on and on. In the end it is just bad game-design. quick and dirty, not thought through

I mean you're asking "questions" but the answers are obvious. The system is broken not because there's rules but because people aren't following them. You need a tank to do DLC dungeons or Vet because unless you build tanky you can get 1-shotted.

[Meowella]

I kinda like the idea of a separate normal queue for people to join that doesn't use roles.

Since all of my chars have 2 or more roles I wouldn't have any issue whatsoever joining - but I'd feel sorry for the dps who only play dps, aren't quite good enough yet and end up quitting the game because of it as they get sick of dying all the time.

[Meowella]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Roadie:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Meowella:

I kinda like the idea of a separate normal queue for people to join that doesn't use roles.

Since all of my chars have 2 or more roles I wouldn't have any issue whatsoever joining - but I'd feel sorry for the dps who only play dps, aren't quite good enough yet and end up quitting the game because of it as they get sick of dying all the time.

If you're gonna queue for a dungeon that doesn't have roles, you may as well just build your character to solo dungeons at that point. Everyone else does anyway

A tank provides a decent damage boost in 4 person content that people never think about when building solo, however.

Dungeon bosses have 18.2k resists - 27.5% damage reduction. So if you hit for 10k, you only deal them 7250.

Pierce Armour (the standard taunt for 1h+s tanks) applies Major and Minor breach, reducing armour by 5948 and 2974.
Infused Crusher glyph on the backbar adds a further 1638 reduction.
So the tank has reduced the 18.2k to 7640, meaning there's only an 11.6% reduction, or added 22% damage to each dps.

When you factor in time spent on personal survival, stuns/cc from their abilities because a dps wouldn't block those without losing dps you'll often find a 1 tank and 2 dps brings more damage than 3 dps. Not to mention that healers are the role you rarely need (meaning 1 tank and 3 dps is the best setup).

Trouble is, too many people would rather be a dps and pull 35k than be a tank and pull 20k while buffing the rest of the groups output to overcompensate for this.

[Swans]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Meowella:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Roadie:

If you're gonna queue for a dungeon that doesn't have roles, you may as well just build your character to solo dungeons at that point. Everyone else does anyway

A tank provides a decent damage boost in 4 person content that people never think about when building solo, however.

Dungeon bosses have 18.2k resists - 27.5% damage reduction. So if you hit for 10k, you only deal them 7250.

Pierce Armour (the standard taunt for 1h+s tanks) applies Major and Minor breach, reducing armour by 5948 and 2974.
Infused Crusher glyph on the backbar adds a further 1638 reduction.
So the tank has reduced the 18.2k to 7640, meaning there's only an 11.6% reduction, or added 22% damage to each dps.

When you factor in time spent on personal survival, stuns/cc from their abilities because a dps wouldn't block those without losing dps you'll often find a 1 tank and 2 dps brings more damage than 3 dps. Not to mention that healers are the role you rarely need (meaning 1 tank and 3 dps is the best setup).

Trouble is, too many people would rather be a dps and pull 35k than be a tank and pull 20k while buffing the rest of the groups output to overcompensate for this.

In many normal dungeons (not the newer DLC), the DPS team is so OP that the loss of these buffs does not really matter. e.g., I am a pretty poor DPS (as I usually tank), but I can pull 80k easily enough, my guild chums easily outdo me, and normal mobs will just melt, tank or no tank.

The main issue I find with fake tanks is they are too lazy/short-sighted to slot a taunt, so the mobs run everywhere, at which point you've got 4 DDs running about the room hitting one mob at a time, and that really does add to the clear time regardless of how much DPS we each can do, and this will be a problem even in basic dungeons like EH, because of the amount of trash. With the boss, one DD gets the aggro and starts kiting it, so our ultimates tend to be useless as the boss is constantly moving. Again, this will definitely lead to a higher clear time than if we have a tank, so I am always prepared to slot Inner Fire if I end up in one of those groups with a fake tank who is not competent enough to have a taunt. If we do 4 DD runs in the guild - maybe for the daily RND - then we agree between us who slots the taunt.

And for most normal content, that's all someone needs to be a tank, Inner Fire and the ability to soak up the damage they attract, so they can in fact still do the same DPS as when they are in full-DPS mode, because they just stick Inner Fire in a flex spot.

However, your average PUG fake tank is so bereft of understanding, they fail to realise this and are therefore usually just a burden.

[Swans]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Roadie:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Swans:

In many normal dungeons (not the newer DLC), the DPS team is so OP that the loss of these buffs does not really matter. e.g., I am a pretty poor DPS (as I usually tank), but I can pull 80k easily enough, my guild chums easily outdo me, and normal mobs will just melt, tank or no tank.

The main issue I find with fake tanks is they are too lazy/short-sighted to slot a taunt, so the mobs run everywhere, at which point you've got 4 DDs running about the room hitting one mob at a time, and that really does add to the clear time regardless of how much DPS we each can do, and this will be a problem even in basic dungeons like EH, because of the amount of trash. With the boss, one DD gets the aggro and starts kiting it, so our ultimates tend to be useless as the boss is constantly moving. Again, this will definitely lead to a higher clear time than if we have a tank, so I am always prepared to slot Inner Fire if I end up in one of those groups with a fake tank who is not competent enough to have a taunt. If we do 4 DD runs in the guild - maybe for the daily RND - then we agree between us who slots the taunt.

And for most normal content, that's all someone needs to be a tank, Inner Fire and the ability to soak up the damage they attract, so they can in fact still do the same DPS as when they are in full-DPS mode, because they just stick Inner Fire in a flex spot.

However, your average PUG fake tank is so bereft of understanding, they fail to realise this and are therefore usually just a burden.

Honestly bad tanks are the primary reason I always keep a damage shield ability slotted on my Stamplar DPS. It ain't a taunt, sure, but it'll at least keep me alive when the boss keeps aggroing me instead of the tank.

Yeah, you've got to factor in the worst case scenario! I was PUGging nMoL last night and the tank was a fake tank, so I pulled up the armourer and quickly switched my Nightblade into his tank spec. That spec is not survivable enough for a vet trial but easily can tank a normal one.

One of the reasons I like PUGs is the chaos and unpredictability, but you need a few skills in your back pocket just in case.

[Sly-Scale]

Honestly it's not that hard to successfully fake a role. Maybe in Veteran DLC dungeons or on Normal Scalecaller Peak I wouldn't recommend it, but you can totally fake a role. We have powercreep to thank for that, but also: most of the game is combat puzzles and they rarely respect your health. Got 45k health? They deal 45k damage.

You can be a healer, and get out-healed by someone who's dealing damage and paying attention to his teammates' health bars.

Same thing with tanking. If you don't know the boss, but the others know the boss, they can probably carry on in your stead and just dodge and heal through what you tried to block. And with some mechanics being the way they are: yes, a worldly DPS is tougher than a fresh tank.

I mean yeah, it's not cool for the tank to be fake, but it's not hard for you to build a fake DPS build to switch into, either.

[nonameyet]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Sly-Scale:

Honestly it's not that hard to successfully fake a role. Maybe in Veteran DLC dungeons or on Normal Scalecaller Peak I wouldn't recommend it, but you can totally fake a role. We have powercreep to thank for that, but also: most of the game is combat puzzles and they rarely respect your health. Got 45k health? They deal 45k damage.

You can be a healer, and get out-healed by someone who's dealing damage and paying attention to his teammates' health bars.

Same thing with tanking. If you don't know the boss, but the others know the boss, they can probably carry on in your stead and just dodge and heal through what you tried to block. And with some mechanics being the way they are: yes, a worldly DPS is tougher than a fresh tank.

I mean yeah, it's not cool for the tank to be fake, but it's not hard for you to build a fake DPS build to switch into, either.

So f your logic was right, yeah all those times my group wiped because they were faking their role didn't happen. If you're going to fake a role, just build a tank/healer that still dpses. You have to ACTUALLY heal or ACTUALLY taunt and not die.

[peterspam]

I started playing ESO just recently and wanted my main to be a tank, I rarely play coop because I like to enjoy the lore and everything a dungeon has to offer.
To be fair, in dungeons nobody seems to care about roles. I rarely get healed, everyone is speedrunning through the dungeon (some don't even pick up the free questline for XP and awards) and more than half of my dungeon runs (level 44 only) I could not even keep up with the others as they literally sprint through the map, while my stamina cannot recover fast enough when I try to shield bash in a boss fight.
The mechanics are logical in that. The player behaviour is not. Most players are ignoring content and want to rush to endpoint, boost themselves to that point without actually enjoying the road to that point.
What is the purpose of doing a dungeon if you laserbeam through every enemy before your teammates even get to that point in the map? It often feels like the matchmaking makes zero sense and top CP level players simply use their teammates to piggyback ride them throughthe dungeon.

[Tresh]

Początkowo opublikowane przez peterspam:

(some don't even pick up the free questline for XP and awards)

You can only pick that quest up once per character, so if they're a higher level, they have probably run that dungeon many times before and were just thrown into it for their random daily.
I dislike the rush myself, but at least on the free quest line, it's usually that they've done it already.

[Jo Stonesoul]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Who am I ?:

Think it like this :


If you wanna chill in a dungeon just go solo. There are lots of builds that can do solo every content in ESO ( dungeon wise ).

True... or you can "run" the dungeon and chill when it's finished. There is nothing stopping you from going back and mopping up or looting chests if that's your thing.

[Lokee63]

Eso was my main Mmo for a very long time. OP I share your frustration and so do many, many other players. I played on PS4 and later on PS5 with over 10k hours in Eso (not kidding).
I finally said enough, is enough. This have to stop. So I went on a hunt for another Mmo, still playing Eso, away from dungeons, farming, a bit of questing. I did not play a lot. Back in the day I ran Vet dungeons back to back, doing trifectas., and doing trials.

It started going south, when I started to level alts, tank, healer. That was the first time I saw, what was going on in dungeons - normal dungeons. I think it fair to say I was living in a bubble at the time I did trial and Vet dungeons back to back.

Getting into a new Mmo is not easy. Finding one that does not have the same issues you are trying to get away from, is one thing. Another thing is the time, money (crowns) and sub support (Eso+) that went into it, is not something that should be taken lightly on. You see OP. Looking back there is only one to blame this on, and that´s myself. ZoS is a business and Eso is a way making money and it´s up to them, if they wanna listen to problems their game design create or not and change it for the better. All this have been going on for too long, so this is how I see it. It will never change because, it´s too time consuming to change. Cost too much, it may even require them to put a lot of work into their engine or enve change engine. You may ask how come they don`t care about their Mmo looks like a perfect griefing paradise and loose players. As long money are floating in, they are safe.

There where two Mmo`s I had my eyes on. WoW and FFxiv. I knew to some degree that WoW have a community, that looked a bit like the community in Eso. So I finally took the step away from Eso and dived in to FFxiv.

Let me just tell you. This was not love at first sight and I say this, because it is not easy, shifting from one Mmo to another, but I just went on, took a break, learned about the game. I knew beforehand, the community in 14 is one of it´s kind, nice, helpful and non toxic.

Today 14 is my main Mmo and I am not going back. It´s the best Mmo I have ever played. People are friendly, understanding and not to forget a dev team that are treated like gods. Now I know why.

Let me round this up now. FFxiv may not be the right game for you and it`s not about 14. It`s about my travel and how happy I am today, have done that shift. It`s not healthy staying in an Mmo, that makes you frustrated, unhappy and stressed up.

Get away before it is getting really bad. You will not get any help from ZoS.

Good luck mate

[Lowbei]

fake roles are fine. i que as tank and outdps the dps, and outheal the healer, so its my run and i go to the end.

if they keep up with their tank as they should, they will get credit and loot. if they fail to do so, thats on them. if they want to go slow and read books and open containers, they can make a group finder group specifically for that roleplaying nonsense.

[peterspam]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Tresh:

Początkowo opublikowane przez peterspam:

(some don't even pick up the free questline for XP and awards)

You can only pick that quest up once per character, so if they're a higher level, they have probably run that dungeon many times before and were just thrown into it for their random daily.
I dislike the rush myself, but at least on the free quest line, it's usually that they've done it already.

Ah OK, thanks, didn't know that. In that case it still wouldn't hurt if the speedrunners would wait. Clearly below level 50 there are a lot of quests still open, so just by looking at someone's level, it would be of some help if they waited a few seconds.