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Widely known troll?
I have made 2 (two) topics here on ESO discussions on my entire LIFE time. So how am i trolling? Maybe mixing me up with someone else?
I do not wonder if ESO discussions have plenty of angry people, same on official ESO forums, there the moderators are power tripping tho and any negative review, even well thought out and posts that have valid pain points of ESO said in then, of the game is shut down. I have seen even content creators get banned/warned there just for telling their opinion as a long time player.
Here on Steam, the moderators actually follow the rules and guidelines, for most part. And so do i.
My post did not break any of the forum and community rules. It was opening a discussion, in a polite format, with real Steam charts data and some personal thoughts and opinions included. Such are allowed in the Steam forums.
If you do not agree with my post, or with Steam charts, you are allowed to your opinion also. But do not make things personal and start calling me a troll, thank you very much.
If not read anything else, read at least this:
My post, what i am talking about is a game. A game is a product. Made by a company. Zenimax Online Studios. A corporation that is there to milk money with gamble crown crates. And you think people have no right to say their opinions about a corporation product? Meanwhile, you call another person a troll and say i should get banned. I am not a corporation product. I am a real person. Hi, i'm a finnish girl, who lives in Helsinki. Enjoys mmo games and has played in past SWTOR and ESO (did quit because of it's problems and bad performance), and currently playing FF14 and GW2 (yes, two mmo at same time, multitasking, but they are both chill and compliment each others just fine). So, maybe if you feel the need to get angry at something, it should not be another fellow mmo gamer in a gaming discussion forum, for saying their opinion. I'm not a troll, thank you very much.
I do have opinions to give and like to talk about different mmo games, news, updates, happenings and so on in them. No need to get angry if someone has different opinion than you. My two posts have shown one thing tho, plenty of people agree with me on the pain points of ESO. Even many streamers do, they have said same things while live and can be seen on many clips on youtube also. ESO endgame community for PVE veteran raiding and PVP has become really small after the golden years of Summerset/Elsweyr. That is a fact you see if you play in the endgame. Circles are so small that everyone knows everyones name. People moved to other games often when hit endgame, when difficult to play the game, because cannot get groups for anything. No need to get angry at me for telling how me and others (even content creators) have seen it happen during last years.
I do wish you a good day though. We should be able to have a nice and civil conversation without going into personal insult level, or accusing of trolling if someone has a different opinion, right? :)
I have? Please link me the "multiple removed threads"? I await for your response. If you say things like that, then better show up with facts. I also never have been banned in my forum history.
Also was never banned in official ESO forums, even they have there very strict policy, because the Devs also moderate themselves that forum also every now and then. Gina and other community managers also do moderating. And they have obvious bias towards decisions, since well, it is their product and employer, so they are bound to make such calls by emotional quick decisions.
Remember all the drama about Rich Lambert (ESO director Dev) tweets and what his wife said on stream about their own players? That is how they handle things there. But here on Steam can have proper discussions luckily. I value Steam as a true neutral grounds for everyone.
I have made exactly one topic here before this. And if you read through it properly, you actually see well thought out posts there, many that also agree with me. Discussing games in a game discussion forum, that is the goal here, right?
Maybe keep the discussion in facts, be polite and civil and do not start making things personal about me, or tell things that are not true, thank you.
That being said, short of having accurate data readily available from the ZOS, Steam charts is a fair enough indicator on the health of the game, and the trends of the playerbase, though hardly the "be all, end all" of the statistics.
Also, with more zones rolling out, it's normal to see lesser player in some (older) zones as many would be caught in the newer areas, not to mention that they would be in instanced content such as delves and Public Dungeons, and not just in overland. At the very least, the faction hubs seem to be business as normal, if just a little lesser players than usual.
If you use the Steam Charts, in May 23 we had average of 14,721 players, and month to date for Jun 23 is 15,245 players, which is a rise of 3.56%. Or if you're the gloom and doom type, you could take the difference between Apr 23 and May 23, standing at 18,182 players and 14,721 players, which is a fall of 19.04%. The list goes on and on, month on month.
For a better comparison, in 2020, when Covid hit and many people were forced to stay home, you can see a trend of a spike in players, likely due to people having to stay at home. The average monthly players for 2020, based on the Steam charts, was 19,906 players.
In 2021, that would be 18,971.
In 2022, that would be 14,964.
Year to date for 2023 would be 15,962.
So, I don't disagree that there's a general downward trend in the game. Is it all doom and gloom? I say hardly, though if things don't improve in the future, then there certainly lies a possibility that it could be so.
This data from Steam charts also isn't representative of the ones that don't play on the Steam client. For all we know, there are a surge of players on that client, or people are simply abandoning the Steam client in favour of the non-Steam one. Who can tell without this data being readily accessible?
And no, I don't subscribe to the idea that because ESO was released on Steam shortly after being on the client, that the majority of the playerbase is on Steam.
Let's take the statement that ESO has 22 million players as of 2023. Split that by half, with 11 million, and use that a rough count of how many players there are on PC. Removing the average of the players in 2020 from this 11 million, and you still have more than 10 million players unaccounted for.
Even if you assume that even half of the accounts from this amount are those that only try during free periods, or who play the game for a week/month/etc or so and stop playing (I have many of those on my friends), that leaves 5 million players unaccounted for.
Even if you take these non-active players as high as the number being 75%, then you still have 2.5 million players that are unaccounted for.
Do I believe this data (22 million players) is accurate? Hardly. But devoid of any hard, accurate data that we can analyse, we can only do our best to extrapolate the data from what we have on hand.
Those are mostly free accounts made on the "Free ESO try weeks" that happen couple times every year, all those accounts that was made, did 1 character, tried for a few minutes and not been logged in since 2017 and never will, counts for you as "active players"? Because that is how ESO devs say, but any well educated players know the "accounts created" means nothing since those are the outlier of trial, free and bot accounts and people who left years ago.
You know this too, surely?
You're nitpicking my statements. Surely you're not trying to misrepresent opinions to put yourself in a better light?
Because surely, if you read just the next paragraph down from what you quoted, you would see that I said the exact same thing that you replied, and even broke down the calculations further.
You're discrediting your own views if you're simply going to zoom on something you can use as an "Aha, got you!" moment when very clearly, it's elaborated shortly after.
Think of it as an excellent schooling environment for the big world of business and politics.
Such to the degree that such experience should be recognized as valid internship hours on a resume for entrance to university.
Top MMO deep dive and current situation:
Top tier (subscriptions, at the time whe everything is "free to play": WoW (bundled in the retail, and classics, WOTLK and whatnot, they are one family sort of) and FF14. Both at 1-2 million DAILY active players and running subs.
WoW+Classic: Not much to tell, not personally play them, some friends do, but numbers are there, and people go back every big update for old times nostalgia. Players are generally "older" than on some other mmo's, playing their characters and remembering the good old days. That is what some dudes tell me who play it, and they are 30 or above, even my dad age tier. I'm only twenty you see. There game will probably stay alive and relevant for another 10 years, or more, with new generation engine and new people in, if they go in right direction and get things fresh.
FF14: I play the game currently. It has massive population. But of course, a lot of "Limsa RP" and clubbers, naughty catgirls, who are casuals for most part, game is full of mini games and social activities, it's like a "Sims in Final Fantasy world" with endless parties, DJ's from twitch. Its "wholesome" game. Endgame is strongly populated enough, with new content coming in steadily through years, lots of trials/raids to do. Animeish look and feel, and PVP on it is just a "side mini game", that for me is a minus, since i like pvp modes in mmo games (yes, i am a masochist, but i did like ESO pvp also, when it worked, and was not a laggy mess, so there is that). Game gives mounts and rewards (weapon and armor styles) from dungeons and trials/raids. So can farm stuff in game and not need to shop much with real money besides sub. FF14 had a long story arc, that has taken 10 years and we are now on it's post-patches. But the dev team has already announced another 10 years is coming already, starting from update 7.0. :)
OSRS/RS3: These i don't know much about but can combine these, and combined the population is bigger than in the mid tier mmo games, GW2, ESO, Black Desert and so on. A lot of bots and try-outs, that just play since this game works on a potato. It's like a phone game when bored, so can cut down that lumber while waiting to get free from work.
ESO, GW2, BDO:
ESO: Has for sure above 100k active players (yes, more than that 13k in Steam charts), i'd put it close to that 100k. Many are new players and a small core of loyal veterans, stay there no matter what kind of storms or weathers are around each update. Many play for housing or RP. They like shiny mounts and weapons, that get from Crown Store. Dungeons/Trials not reward much shiny things outside couple mounts. People like to solo play a lot. Hard to get groups at endgame veteran content. Any endgame player can tell about this if they are being honest. But, the game will live on for years still, because it has housing/rp whales who buy all those big crown packages if it has something shiny in it. PVP was fun still during Summerset times. Combat developer team is lost, making big up and down changes every 3 months that most often not make sense. Classes, most sets and skills are changed to be a bland excel spreadsheet by current combat dev team. In fact, game would be possibly thriving most likely without that dev team shooting their own leg year after year. Still, ESO will be alive for the next 10 years too.
GW2: Has for sure that same 100k active players (based on visual senses after playing and seeing how much population there are 24/7 everywhere, and even it's Steam numbers are really low, it feels around same as ESO, but people there seem more inclined to do group stuff, in both pvp and pve. Of course it has solo people also and 24/7 Lion's Arch memelords who are only there for Map Chat Content lmao. And game is not perfect. It has had bad content cycle and memes about it are real. But, the core of the game is fun, and pvp is super fun, and it works, zero lag even in 50+ vs 50+ blob fights in a massive keep. It's nice to have such working pvp. :) But it also has occasional bugs and so on. And also some weird balance decisions every now and then it seems. Like on current update. So it's not a perfect game either. But the pvp is a clear 9/10 and open world events/metas are fun and people work together. Meanwhile on ESO often felt like it's almost single player game. Sort of Skyrim Lite, where people solo chill (and nothing wrong wit that imo) and thus can be hard to find groups for group content. Honest people can admit that i think? But as said, GW2 has it's own problems. I am honest and call out things when i see them. Still, it's fun game and i see it living easily also for next 10 years too.
BDO: Insert KEKW meme. Okay, i promised to not go there and start satire. But i don't play it, outside few days of testing. The game looks nice and combat is nice. But something just felt off for me and did not get interested to keep playing after that couple days. And endgame seems to be just grinding some spot. Like grinding mobs. Not gonna start doing that when i can have fun 24/7 pvp in GW2 and epic raids in FF14. :) But i guess BDO has it's hardcore fans also, and most likely alive for years also.
There. Honest enough? Thoughts? :)
New to MMORPGs?
Trust me, you didn't lose big time. Uninstalled ESO then played New World and never looked back since.
New World pretty much has free cost to future patches/expansions. Best game there is in 2023.
Have you even played this ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game? Do try doing 4man random daily or battlegrounds, then let me know how long is your que?
But to be honest both games are fine but offer different experiences. Surely the world (for most of us) is big enough to have more then one MMO that is reasonable. This old argument of 'this is better then that' is so old.
Did you read what i wrote? I specifically said that in ESO it is (was for me, and for my friends also, i did quit the game) hard to get groups for veteran stuff, both dungeons and raids. And there only comes like 1 raid per year, so would think enough people to do them since not that much choice, unless wanna repeat same old Craglorn trials forever.
ESO feels to me, and for many others also, more like a single player game, many players there just "solo and chill in Skyrim Lite". And it's not wrong to do so, i'm not saying that. But what it means, is that it escalates always eventually to really small endgame population that wants to do the actual content just for the fun of it. And that population has got small, same as pvp population in ESO, since devs have for years had it in abandoned without anything new, except promises of no lag, promises that were never kept.
I like doing stuff with other people, so enjoy mmo's where got people with similar mindset. :) As said, i feel ESO has active players enough to be around for years. But most like to do solo things, rp, housing, collect fashion stuff and buy stuff from crown store, some people there said it was "content" when new crown store season came. In other games actual content is.. content. Not new gamble crates that can buy. But some like it i guess? *shrugs*
Do you know what a retread' is?