A brief history of my ESO experience, and why people love and hate the combat mechanics.

[Asha Man]

The best and most memorable game experiences I have had in my life were in World of Warcraft and Elder Scrolls Online. I experienced all the mistakes that Blizzard made. Some of them were not their fault just the advance of technology that changed the game in unfortunate ways. But most were the way they made the game easier and easier to try to reach a larger target market. Having succeeded they made me feel like instead of an adult playing with other adults, I was playing with children disguised as panda people. Questing in the world was no longer a challenge where you had to be careful anymore or you might die, it was just a chore you did as quickly as possible to get to end game content.

I have never considered most of the world content in ESO to be challenging, in fact I think many people agree it is way too easy, but after playing Skyrim I found the game amazing. The open world quests in this game especially the main story line are exceptional, and to me did not feel like a chore at all. But that wasn't what hooked me.
What hooked me was that after spending many months enjoying all the content that was new to me at the time, collecting all the sky shards and lore books, learning the mechanics of the dungeons and killing Molag Bal ......... I found Cyrodiil.

I always knew it was there, in fact like most people I went there fairly early on to get the mount speed passive by doing the quests. Then I left and never went back, because at the time had no interest in PVP. Later on I realized there are sky shards there and I had to go back to get them. That was when I jumped into a group and defended my first keep. Afterwards I found myself going back all the time. Soon I joined a PVP guild, and that was when the fun really started.

I could go on and on about epic bridge, mile gate, and keep battles I experienced with my guild against huge groups of people. Or that one night I got to use Volendrung, running around for hours with my guild wrecking keep walls and annihilating groups of enemy PVP players. But I want to get to the point of why I'm writing all this which is the combat system.

When I first started to PVP in ESO I couldn't understand why I was having so much trouble against certain players. There was nothing in the world anymore that intimidated me, I was starting to solo dark anchors and even cleared a dungeon with one other person. So why was I dying so quickly and having so much trouble killing some people?

At first I thought they must be using some crazy add on or maybe hacking the software. But as I did more research and talked to the best players in my guild I realized something. Those people were just really good players. They had put the time in to learn what they needed to know and practice their weaving, animation cancelling, and rotations. Plus were experienced enough now to be able to mitigate their damage while outputting maximum burst damage that they had become PVP gods. If you want to see this in action, just look at any old You Tube video by Lefty Lucy where he show cases some of the best PVP players and explains what they are doing as they are doing it. Watch how one person can take on an army of other people and kill them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDKLamoYKIE&list=PL0bkH5YLWS4_J0lpBukAQ2xJoKq8TjdKY
People who are new to ESO, especially those who are new to gaming in general, will not know or appreciate how much stronger a really good player can become because of the combat mechanics. Players who aren't willing to learn will always be at a disadvantage against those who do the research and practice and put the time in to become the best in the game. This, in my opinion, is what makes (or made) this game truly great.

In WoW to become one of the best players you not only need to know what your doing, but you also need the best gear. Even after that you can never become as powerful as a person in ESO who can take on an army of other players and survive. This not only gives players in ESO a long term goal to work for, but as they begin to take on more players and live it gives them a big sense of accomplishment. After all once you learn the mechanics in a dungeon, after beating the bosses in that dungeon twenty, fifty, a hundred times starts to get very stale. But playing PVP will always be new and exciting as people are always unpredictable.

I think the Elder Scrolls Online is one of the best games in the history of gaming. If it fails because of some developers who don't even play the game making changes that veteran players don't want or like, or monetizing the game so much that there is nothing left in the game to work at getting without buying it, I am going to be extremely sad.

The one thing that developers need to consider, the one aspect they don't seem to understand, is that playing a great video game is like playing a musical instrument. When you first start playing your not good. But the more you practice the better you get. And the greatest games keep challenging you no matter how long you play. The players that stay around for years are the ones who learn to play the best and become respected by the community.

But if they keep changing the instrument on you, or worse make it easier so that people only have to learn chopsticks instead of Beethoven, then good players will have nothing to challenge them and go play somewhere else. Those are the same players that lead the guilds, lead the raids, and advise newer players on all the strategies and aspects of the game. They make up the core of the community. When they start leaving more and more will follow.

There are many people like me who love this game and want to see it succeed. I hope it does so one day I will be happy to come back and play again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6J-V0qru0

[therezoner]

Cyro, best fun in the game and more people should give it a good try.
I am crap at PVP because of health issues and bad lag [Australia] but I have had heaps of fun in Cyro and I never group.

[Zayrownd]

You should write a book

[Janmarqu Chato]

Originally posted by Zayrownd:

You should write a book.

If either of you want to help an upcoming novelist write a 12-part science-fiction series with a bit of inspiration from The Elder Scrolls (amongst other sources), I personally know someone who will gladly take any and all suggestions AND is willing to list everyone who makes a direct contribution as a co-author.

[Hefutoxin]

Freeform building is good at low levels of play.

However, ESO combat is silly. Weird animation cancelling has created a situation where using a basic. attack. between. each. skill. breaks. the. flow. of. combat. Zero cooldown skills have caused builds to veer towards more DoT layering. There is very little play in skill combinations or conditionals. Leaves combat feeling samey-same across most builds.

PvP will naturally have more options, especially for counterplay. PvP players generally prefer a better build diversity that comes from class restrictions as well as skill conditionals that are available in other MMOs.

[Donauwelle]

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

Weird animation cancelling has created a situation where using a basic. attack. between. each. skill. breaks. the. flow. of. combat. Zero cooldown skills have caused builds to veer towards more DoT layering.

Actually there is a Global cooldown for all Abilitys and lightattacks, even the more bonker abilitys like jabs or other abilitys with animations that can be canceled have a GCD...
If you invest into Parsing and practising DPS you will notice nearly all player use combat-metronom style addons to visualize the GCD for better parsing...
The DoT heavy rotas we see ATM are not down to GCDs but cuz Zenimax increased the duration of most DoTs by a HUUUUGE margain... Some even got doubled in U35...

And the Combat flow interrupting? mmmh depends on your preferences...
If you like WOW style 1-2-3-4-5-5-5 Combat yes it is....
However if you like actionbased, fast paced, super-timing based combat, ESO is a dream.

It has a steep learing curve and is super punishing, but also super rewarding...
I really loved the fact that in eso DPS doesnt come from gear but like 80% of it comes from perfect weaving... from individual playerskill....

You can Have 3000CP foll golden Meta-gear and still do only 30k dps if you have no interesst in Parsing,
or your 600CP purple crafing sets and go Dummypractise for a few hours and do 80-90k dps.... in ESO all is possible and depends on individual skill.

Investing into Parsing and practising in ESO easyly quadrouples your DPS output...
In average WOW style games its just get BiS gear and press 5 buttons.... How boring

Ive played MMOs since Ultima online and im 6000 hrs into ESO...and damn,
ESOs combat is the most "interactive" and "fluent" ive ever seen....

Hybridisation is terrible integrated tho... U35 was a nightmare and ended up killing the rest Class identity that remained....
Not to mention its still incomplete...
Jewel Traits, potions, glyphs, Classpassives.... all still not "hybridisated"
Lazy Zenimax as always just doing half of the work....



And regarding PVP build diversity.... well not really...
sure in a +lfg rando blob you can wear all sets you want, what ever, go nuts and have fun.
But as always in MMO there is a Meta (best numbers available) and this Meta for pvp is just as boring/wanky as PVEs....
You wouldnt belive how many dedicated PVPs just use the same build (often even for years) this is especially notable when you watch PVP "pro" streams...
Thing is Zenimax "balances" sets for Both modes but usually end up breaking them for one mode...

Also sad but true, the devs pretty much neglect PVP...
Last CONTENT update for pvp was lit 4 years ago and this was the aldmeri arena...
And 3 years ago volendrung was added but thats ...... not really "Content" but much more a Call of duty style killstreak...
If goes this far that Zenimax developers downright BAN known pvp streamer from their livestreams just for asking "what about pvp" or Streamer directly asociated with ZoS (Rich lamberts wife lmao) makeing toxic jokes about PVPs on livestream....

This actually went viral on reddit/YT and together with the 4 years of no content ended up in a mass ragequit in PVP community....



Guess ESOs biggest problem about combat is the non existant ingame toutorial...
The 2 minutes toutorial upon staring a new char is a joke at best and missleading at worst...

Nearly 10 years of ESO and there is still just ONE single mention of weaving ingame...
In a damn Tooltip during loading screen telling you that you can do a lightattack between skills...
A tooltip someone with a propper gaming rig wont even notice cuz 7000ms NVMEs and modern CPU destroy loadingscreens

[Asha Man]

Originally posted by Donauwelle:

And the Combat flow interrupting? mmmh depends on your preferences...
If you like WOW style 1-2-3-4-5-5-5 Combat yes it is....
However if you like actionbased, fast paced, super-timing based combat, ESO is a dream.

It has a steep learing curve and is super punishing, but also super rewarding...
I really loved the fact that in eso DPS doesnt come from gear but like 80% of it comes from perfect weaving... from individual playerskill....

You can Have 3000CP foll golden Meta-gear and still do only 30k dps if you have no interesst in Parsing,
or your 600CP purple crafing sets and go Dummypractise for a few hours and do 80-90k dps.... in ESO all is possible and depends on individual skill.

TY Don, this was the point I was trying to make.

[76561197979566298]

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

Also sad but true, the devs pretty much neglect PVP...
Last CONTENT update for pvp was lit 4 years ago and this was the aldmeri arena...
And 3 years ago volendrung was added but thats ...... not really "Content" but much more a Call of duty style killstreak...
If goes this far that Zenimax developers downright BAN known pvp streamer from their livestreams just for asking "what about pvp" or Streamer directly asociated with ZoS (Rich lamberts wife lmao) makeing toxic jokes about PVPs on livestream....

This actually went viral on reddit/YT and together with the 4 years of no content ended up in a mass ragequit in PVP community....

Wow I was thinking of returning and had no idea the devs were this cucked towards PVE. As a PVP lover and risk taker in all the games I play, I'll never come back to ESO knowing this.

Besides every time I come back to the forums wondering If I should return, I always see veteran players talking about how the pvp isnt what it used to be.

[Privatelvl25]

12 paragraphs about a video game will NEVER be considered "brief"

[Asha Man]

TY for the comment. Next time will endeavor to be brief, and use words that are easier to understand.

[Nameless]

Hybridization has really funneled all builds to use the same cheap tricks. Losing class identity really makes everyone more similar than different. The current Lead Designer of Combat really needs to go. They just don't get it. We need diversity without Hybridizing everything.

If I want to go deep into stamina, I should be able to. If I want to go Deep Magicka, I should be able to. If I want to go for a Mix, I should be able to. If I want to do something else (That I cant think of right now) I should be able to. Hybridization basically just means a mishmash of stamina and magicka abilities across all classes. It REALLY narrows things. No good player is going to not game the system. So when you realize that you have to use both stam/mag to be maximally effective, that's what you will do. Thus Hybridization is pure failure. Even when playing the single player ES games, we rarely Hybridize. It's more of a focused path.

Mr Wheeler needs to go. Fire him, move him to a different role, or demote him. It's time. 1 year later (From the Hybridization push) and combat is significantly worse.

[Poop]

A brief history on my experience is this... I met toxic rude, a-holes who wanted dungeons completed fast on rnd. They hate everyone but themselves. It is a monster helm chase and a shoulder chase. Other than that it is all about skill points and PVP. These foreigners ruined the game with lag. They're rude, lazy, and don't belong here. Also, they're cheaters too. Yes, people cheat in ESO constantly. It would be nice to see you officially admit it.

[Donauwelle]

Originally posted by Xi:

Mr Wheeler needs to go. Fire him, move him to a different role, or demote him. It's time. 1 year later (From the Hybridization push) and combat is significantly worse.

Dont forget about Rich Lambert, our favourite 45yo Man-child
Yeah the new crew.... They simply dont do the job....


Not to mention they still didnt finish Hybridisation....
Class-passives, glyphs and potions for example are still not done yet....
Not even a single mention about an ETA for this to be finished....
Nearly 1 year after, this looks just amazingly lazy even for current Zos standards....

[Poop]

Originally posted by Zayrownd:

You should write a book

Blocked.

[Elendir Blue]

Originally posted by Donauwelle:

Guess ESOs biggest problem about combat is the non existant ingame toutorial...
The 2 minutes toutorial upon staring a new char is a joke at best and missleading at worst...

This

I believe, that ESO combat could be second biggest ESO attraction, if explained properly.
Unfortunately, nonexistent tutorial make it confusing for casual players and they see it as some arbitrary system, which end game players exploit. They see it as negative instead positive therfore.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by Elendir Blue:

Originally posted by Donauwelle:

Guess ESOs biggest problem about combat is the non existant ingame toutorial...
The 2 minutes toutorial upon staring a new char is a joke at best and missleading at worst...

This

I believe, that ESO combat could be second biggest ESO attraction, if explained properly.
Unfortunately, nonexistent tutorial make it confusing for casual players and they see it as some arbitrary system, which end game players exploit. They see it as negative instead positive therfore.

The explanation would have to read "All characters must use both Stamina and Magicka abilities to maximize DPS potential." As well as LA Weaving. The real issue is Hybridization makes everyone have to do it. We all need both to be maximal which is dumb. Sure, you can do without, but you won't clear the hardest content unless you min/max. Any decent player that understands this will Hybridize whether they like it or not.

Instead of Stamina builds and Magicka DPS builds within a class. There is now a top Hybrid build that trumps either pure build. Thus fewer actual top end builds. The difference between Pure and Hybrid is HUGE too. /Shrug

10-30K vs 100-130K.