How is this game a P2W (Pay to Win)

[Blade12775]

So I posted this in another form for someone saying this is a p2w. I know I won't get an answer because no one ever answers me when I ask this question (like 12 times now). Just looking for answers. Nothing more.

Please enlighten me on how this game is a p2w? I don't understand on what basis people are thinking on this because no one ever explains it. "It's p2w people!" is all anyone ever says. Are you saying all DLC and Expansions should be free in this game. You already don't have to pay to play.

Pay To Win is defined as:
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/pay-to-win#:~:text=pay%20to%20win%20%E2%80%8BDefinitions,the%20desire%20to%20play%20anymore.
Just to be clear in case you don't know what a p2w game is: You have to pay, as an example, an item that gives you an advantage over other people or (let's include as is most of the cases) the game itself. P2W is also you pay to get past a certain point in the game, aka, a wall that won't let you continue to play. In other words: Look at the majority of mobile games. Look at all the complaints about Diablo Immortal and what it cost for end game to pvp. One streamer put in over $1,200 I think for 1 legendary crest. Those crest give's you a huge advantage in pvp. Don't have the money you're going to lose.

This game is not that. As with any game that is currently out right now, they contain dlc and expansions and are NOT considered p2w. But this game is! How and why?

This game, as it currently is/stands, does not contain any product that is p2w. You gain 0 (zero) items that you have to pay for give's no kind of advantage over anyone or the game itself. You have literally 4 complete campaigns to play through, 3 on the original game and Morrowind as well. You are not blocked in any way, shape, or form from playing that content. Just as with any game out there, you do have to purchase DLC and Expansions. Makes sense being that the company puts in time and effort to make them.

PVP wise: You don't have to pay for that either, other than losing when you suck. You can't buy anything outside of what's in the game that gives you any sort of advantage. So NO! Again the game is not p2w!

There are NO ITEMS that can be bought in the game that can be used in combat or that makes the game any easier. You CAN'T buy items to increase crafting percentage like purple or gold items. You CAN'T buy better mounts. Those are all skins. Same with any weapon or armor in the store. Houses can be bought with either gold or premium currency. Can't purchase skyshards for your current character unless you've already found all of them on the map you want with another character.

And yes, I know, you won't answer just like everyone else who claims this because you know your claims are very false and contain no basis of truth. It's kinda alright. We all make mistakes sometimes out of ignorance or just from being mad.

Another example is this video: For reference Honeywood is the starter town and main hub in this RPG. This is a pay wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGmXPk5MhuU&ab_channel=VivaLaDirtLeague

[The Sandal Bomber ™©]

Its not p2w its pay2fashion.

[Blade12775]

Originally posted by The Foot Long Fart™©:

Its not p2w its pay2fashion.

That it is. I'll pay2fashion but not p2w.

[Lowbei]

Its not, and I find the concept of [somebody on a different forum told me something, so I came here to ask about it] to be fascinating.

[Blade12775]

Originally posted by Lowbei:

Its not, and I find the concept of [somebody on a different forum told me something, so I came here to ask about it] to be fascinating.

Don't get me wrong. I've asked a bunch of times when someone says it but when I say it's not and explain why they never respond back. Not once. So I decided to ask this where everyone can see. Maybe someone would like to explain their point of view. I'm not looking to start something or argue with them. I genuinely want to know their thought process about it and why they think that.

[Lowbei]

Originally posted by Blade12775:

Originally posted by Lowbei:

Its not, and I find the concept of [somebody on a different forum told me something, so I came here to ask about it] to be fascinating.

Don't get me wrong. I've asked a bunch of times when someone says it but when I say it's not and explain why they never respond back. Not once. So I decided to ask this where everyone can see. Maybe someone would like to explain their point of view. I'm not looking to start something or argue with them. I genuinely want to know their thought process about it and why they think that.

So...

You were told by [somebody on a different forum] something that you didnt believe, and that these [people from a different forum] also refused to explain themselves.
Thus, you came here, to [a different forum] to ask, because you "genuinely want to know their thought process about it..."

Do I have this right? This is the premise for your thread?

[Katzh]

pay with your wallet so bethesda win profit

[Thomas D.]

It's not pay 2 win it's pay 2 enjoy => craft bag, banker, merchant, deconstruction companion

[Softspokenman]

You get xp boosts, money boost, abilities from owning / having access to pay walled gear, guilds, skills, skill points from quests and crystals, companions and assistants, more storage space from back pack pets, infinite crafting item storage, more classes and races, the only way you can earn crowns, and plus member get exclusive free items and discounts

skill points, abilities ,companions , and gear directly affect game play and are not just pay to enjoy

The pay items are not just eye candy they as they should be they are out right advantages

[Thomas D.]

True but not as advantages as owning or not owning them decides over winning or loosing and that has to be the case to make a game pay2win, because you always can win without that stuff ESO isnt pay2win.

The XP Boost of ESO+ is almost not noticeable, I even didnt know about it when I subscribed the first time. And once you reach about CP 1600 which shouldnt take that much more time without that boost, the XP Boost gets (almost) useless.

Then you can do builds with base game gear that can compete with builds that use DLC gear (even oakensoul ring might be overtuned for some PVP builds). You just have less options but you still have options, some of the strongest sets are btw. even base game. Deadly Strike or Advancing Yokeda for example. Also someone with base game access has also indirect access to all overland and craftable sets from DLCs. Overland sets can be bought over guild traders even if you dont own the DLC and craftable sets can be crafted via crafting tables in guild halls even if you dont own the DLC. I for example did just craft the orders wrath set without owning High Isle.

Also the additional guilds / skills arent that much of use. I almost never use the entire psijic skill line, except in a few situations, for example the bubble in moonhunter keep HM as a tank, where it isnt even manadatory. My main usage of that skillline is to use mend wounds and beam other players just for fun - outside any combat...

To the skill points thing: the base game has enough skill points to reach the maximum potential of your character.

Furthermore the single additional race isnt necessary, its btw. even a bad damage dealer race and a bad healer race, its great for tanking but there are also alternative choices, I even tank on a dunmer (one of the worst choices for tanking...)

And to the warden or necromancer class. I have access to both, I tried both but I am still playing usually base game classes and kill both regularly in PVP and often outperform both in PVE with a base game class. They might have some nice stuff, but every class has some nice stuff and its often just about the "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome.

But you arent seriously mentionening companions in a pay 2 win context, do you? Companions are really not that great. And in every content where they might matter they arent even possible to use. You cant use them in PVP, you cant use them in group content if your party is full (and yes even mediocre human players will always outperform companions) and you cant use them in solo arenas. So the only place you can use them is overland content, content that is so easy that you can solo being blind folded, without gear and even not trying to beat the content. They are nonetheless nice perks / gimmicks and everything else but pay2win but if you really need them to win anything the main problem is really something else.

At least I 100% agree that ESO+ and the crown store is more than just cosmetics. In my opinion its almost unplayable without the crafting bag, the inventory pets and the assistants, because you will be forced to do a huge amount of playtime, "playing" inventory manager than the actual game.

[💫𝓗yp𝟹rspac𝟹💫]

Like it was stated before, it's P2F (Pay 2 Fashion) and P2C (Pay 2 Convenience: to reduce grind, to be more comfortable, to get something faster, etc).

Sadly, it's also P2PM (Pay 2 Play More, or whatever you wanna call it) cuz all additional content--meaning DLC zones and GD's--must be purchased on top of what you purchased at full-game price. The Base Game does have plenty of content and additions do provide further replayability, but the pricing for extra content and what do they add deflates the fun of just Base Game, just not in the way ZoS wants it to be.

The 2 elephants in the room when trying to defend ESO of being P2W are Jewelry crafting and mythics (and by consequence the whole excavation system). Some may argue how mythics may not be necessarily P2W (indeed, it isn't... by just remembering that Oukensoul will be nerfed when is financially convenient like few other mythics were) but they do help a lot to work PvP builds (and I mean that may bring advantage if properly implemented). Jewelry, on the other hand does bring a difference that can be considered P2W cuz you need at least to max it all--particularly the research--for full gearing independence (fellow crafters do understand what I'm saying), and the only 2 options to have that done are ESO+ until you are done w the skill or purchase Summerset. You may evade to use craftables at jewelry for more than 1 good reason, but you still need to max it's improvement level and research for proper transmutes [of everything] and reconstruction of non-craftables (not everyone is masochist enough to grind the gold needed for specific jewelry w the right traits , and you still need to transmute non-craftables on your own). Jewelry is 3 pieces and must be transmuted by yourself, which does make a difference in win or loose... at least in advanced content and PvP (the rest of the game is no problem).

So, yes and no for ESO when it comes to P2W, but still the 2 elephants in the room have a negative effect at the game experience, which is what we pay for in 1st place: game experience.

[AmaiAmai]

Whether you agree the game is P2W or not, PvP is not a competitive endeavor.

Also, this patch amounts to "get Oaken or get stomped"

[Lowbei]

Originally posted by AmaiAmai:

Whether you agree the game is P2W or not, PvP is not a competitive endeavor.

Also, this patch amounts to "get Oaken or get stomped"

Claiming that player vs player is not competitive is just laughably false. Its the nature of pvp.

Also, Oaken isnt best in slot, and most people arent using it in PvP.

[AmaiAmai]

Originally posted by Lowbei:

Originally posted by AmaiAmai:

Whether you agree the game is P2W or not, PvP is not a competitive endeavor.

Also, this patch amounts to "get Oaken or get stomped"

Claiming that player vs player is not competitive is just laughably false. Its the nature of pvp.

Also, Oaken isnt best in slot, and most people arent using it in PvP.

An opinion on either side can't be falsified. So, maybe not?

[Lowbei]

Originally posted by AmaiAmai:

Originally posted by Lowbei:

Claiming that player vs player is not competitive is just laughably false. Its the nature of pvp.

Also, Oaken isnt best in slot, and most people arent using it in PvP.

An opinion on either side can't be falsified. So, maybe not?

People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

The fact is that pvp is by its very nature competitive. That really isnt up for debate.

In truth, a lot of ESO players dodge PvP because they know they arent good at it, and telling themselves "its not competitive" is a coping mechanism that helps them get past the concept that they arent as good at playing their characters as they thought.

[AmaiAmai]

Originally posted by Lowbei:

Originally posted by AmaiAmai:

An opinion on either side can't be falsified. So, maybe not?

People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

The fact is that pvp is by its very nature competitive. That really isnt up for debate.

In truth, a lot of ESO players dodge PvP because they know they arent good at it, and telling themselves "its not competitive" is a coping mechanism that helps them get past the concept that they arent as good at playing their characters as they thought.

Okay, thanks for your opinion. Moving on...