Werewolves in the lore...

[Cain]

hey lore junkines mind indulging me on this question i got? ok so basically my question is what do ya guys think about werewolves and aging. ive seen talk that since the werewolves or at least the normal ones (not the behemoths) count as quasi mortal at least a little bit that because of that they do age and people typically bring up kodlak white-mane from ESO: V and how he looked old and was talking about curing his lycanthropy before dying seemingly implying WW do age and can die of age as well, however tho i do have some thoughts on that that it would be cool to get a opinion on.

for starters it could be possible that its a gandalf type thing where the WW either age slowly or at least when it comes to dying of age, cant die like that yet still age or it could just mean that kodlak only became a WW when he was old and stayed at that age until we meet him with him talking of dying is more in reference to how more and more WW keep on dying to the silver hand or perhaps he was having tiber septim type prophetic dreams of his immenet death to the silver hand. theoretically based on what exarch ulfra says and the seemingly overlooked IMMORTAL Werewolf, Falchou, that its possible because of how falchou is described to be able to stabbed in the chest by a sword with the sword literally piercing his heart it it causing no damage that Werewolves, despite being partially mortal still have the wolverine style inability to age (pre getting the chrome bone dip)

personally i think it has merit that at least WW do not age the same as normal mortals and perhaps have vastly increased lifespans if not full on immortality whether it stops the bodies from having the appearance of aging or not especially since the curse of lycanthropy also effects WW normal bodies as well as their WW forms. whats everyones thoughts on this one?

[Echsrick]

well in any way being one is clearly not the most healthy thing you can do eveen less if you die as one your soul wont go back where it sould go it goes to the deadra wich is not a good thing so please remind your self to not get this disease

[Scraps]

Like a few topics in TES, and more specifically their daedric-influenced subraces (vampires/werewolves), there's vagueness, if not inconsistencies in the lore between games.

For lycanthropes, Skyrim's Companion's guild seems to be the best example. Skor and Kodlak seem to age just fine, while the group do have motives regarding the afterlife. Some don't mind the Hunting Grounds, whereas Kodlak and essentially the point of the plot is that he cares deeply about it. You very rarely, if at all, get any such motivations with their bat cousins. Vampires either don't mention Coldharbour or are already deeply ingrained with it, but I don't recall them having motivations of "Do I want to go to x when I die?" unlike werewolves.

Immortal and long-living werewolves do exist with daedric influence. In TES:III Bloodmoon, Tharsten Heart-Fang (a werewolf), lived for many generations, but this is likely due to him wearing The Ring of Hircine, not lycanthropy itself. In ESO (if you find this an appropriate source), there is the khajiit "Werewolf Lord", Vykosa, though she was directly turned by Hircine (a first generation werewolf), and has been around since the Merethic Era.

One thing to mention is whether or not they should be immortal to begin with, and "why". Given the nature of lycanthropy being an incredibly violent and bloodthirsty beast, it is likely an extreme rarity to be alive given how much you're forced into warfare. Orc culture is similar; orsimer have longer lifespans than humans, but it's a very rare circumstance because of the most common religion falling under Malacath desires a violent death.

[Cain]

Originally posted by N0X:

One thing to mention is whether or not they should be immortal to begin with, and "why". Given the nature of lycanthropy being an incredibly violent and bloodthirsty beast, it is likely an extreme rarity to be alive given how much you're forced into warfare. Orc culture is similar; orsimer have longer lifespans than humans, but it's a very rare circumstance because of the most common religion falling under Malacath desires a violent death.

i think thats a good point you brought up in terms of explaining the sparcity in seeing seemingly immortal WW in the lore is that often times either they turned against their will and fight it and subsequently lose control of it likely sooner rather than later getting merc'd by the silver hand who seem to be quite skillful WW hunters or they embrace the curse and take to it and the as you mentioned, violence and bloodthirst ending up like how many orcs do of dying in battle before any change of dying to old age. it could be a sort of thing like only variations have the immortality with falchou i think had the title, "Changeling" and idk if it was just his lycanthropy being stronger or what but the lore talks about how unless it was fire he literally couldnt die to it so perhaps there are either sub species of WW like the behemoth and becoming one either grants or at least makes possible the prospect of immortality or its advancing your lycanthropies strength and perhaps a connection to hircines hunting grounds.

as for vampires not talking about coldharbour much would make as much sense as WW talking about the hunting grounds even if the vampires were able to age since vampires master doesnt want the best for them as we see in the vampires that live in coldharbour and its a very undesirable fate so unlike the battle hungery and bloodthirsty WW who relish a fight and often times are races like nords meaning their culture itself makes them love the thought of an afterlife and strive to die in battle. on top of that, many vampires seem to have strong ambitions for the world around them so it makes no sense they would relish their eventual death considering many likely have things they wanna do or things or people they wanna see and on top of all of that, unlike WW who can be forced to transform against their will making it more than likely that on their own they will one day be revealed means that they can much more easily blend and hide in society without any issues without even having to kill or even turn the victims they drink from if they dont want to (house ravenwatches butler)

[drunken.dx]

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

well in any way being one is clearly not the most healthy thing you can do eveen less if you die as one your soul wont go back where it sould go it goes to the deadra wich is not a good thing so please remind your self to not get this disease

you missed parts where there are people looking forward to getting to Hircine's eternal hunt.

someone's hell is other man's paradise.

[Echsrick]

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

well in any way being one is clearly not the most healthy thing you can do eveen less if you die as one your soul wont go back where it sould go it goes to the deadra wich is not a good thing so please remind your self to not get this disease

you missed parts where there are people looking forward to getting to Hircine's eternal hunt.

someone's hell is other man's paradise.

and this for sure is some thinkin i never understand

[Cain]

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

you missed parts where there are people looking forward to getting to Hircine's eternal hunt.

someone's hell is other man's paradise.

and this for sure is some thinkin i never understand

fair but at the end of the day its as simple as some people like power and getting a chance to use it and since the hunting grounds as we see often have daedra and foolish mortals to hunt than it seems like it offers the best chance for the rest of eternity to use their formidable power and enjoy it completely

[Echsrick]

Originally posted by Vesimir:

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

and this for sure is some thinkin i never understand

fair but at the end of the day its as simple as some people like power and getting a chance to use it and since the hunting grounds as we see often have daedra and foolish mortals to hunt than it seems like it offers the best chance for the rest of eternity to use their formidable power and enjoy it completely

so you want to betray your own people? thats not realy healthy

[drunken.dx]

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

Originally posted by Vesimir:

fair but at the end of the day its as simple as some people like power and getting a chance to use it and since the hunting grounds as we see often have daedra and foolish mortals to hunt than it seems like it offers the best chance for the rest of eternity to use their formidable power and enjoy it completely

so you want to betray your own people? thats not realy healthy

seriously, do try to check some TES lore, you sound VERY naive...

In lore, some people won big time by worshipping and serving Daedra.

Even Manimarco won, and he flat out betrayed entire Tamriel. and one of endings of Daggerfall has him reach godhood. (and apparently all Daggerfall endings are cannon to some degree)

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco#The_Warp_in_the_West

[Cain]

yea Dr.medic, either your just playing devils advocate at this point, actually dont understand that im just pointing out the mindset (i dont hold it) and that ultimately even irl there are people who WOULD 100% think like that considering criminals often times commit crimes in a effort to acrew power over the rest of society by screwing over society and than use it to their hearts content even if that includes hurting others.

[Echsrick]

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

so you want to betray your own people? thats not realy healthy

seriously, do try to check some TES lore, you sound VERY naive...

In lore, some people won big time by worshipping and serving Daedra.

Even Manimarco won, and he flat out betrayed entire Tamriel. and one of endings of Daggerfall has him reach godhood. (and apparently all Daggerfall endings are cannon to some degree)

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco#The_Warp_in_the_West

yes and just see what happend whit manimarco...not realy something that would say "i won" after all he lost in the end

Originally posted by Vesimir:

yea Dr.medic, either your just playing devils advocate at this point, actually dont understand that im just pointing out the mindset (i dont hold it) and that ultimately even irl there are people who WOULD 100% think like that considering criminals often times commit crimes in a effort to acrew power over the rest of society by screwing over society and than use it to their hearts content even if that includes hurting others.

well actualy i do care about the lore after all all my saxhleel characters have names that would make sense for them and alsol this is just a way of thinkin realy for me its like worshipin an demon like creature that wants to destroy the world or wants to do any kind of annoying thing to the world is for me like betraying your own people

[drunken.dx]

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

seriously, do try to check some TES lore, you sound VERY naive...

In lore, some people won big time by worshipping and serving Daedra.

Even Manimarco won, and he flat out betrayed entire Tamriel. and one of endings of Daggerfall has him reach godhood. (and apparently all Daggerfall endings are cannon to some degree)

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco#The_Warp_in_the_West

yes and just see what happend whit manimarco...not realy something that would say "i won" after all he lost in the end

You failed to see part where he became a god... 8 centuries after ESO... Quite a long life, even for an altmer.

Quite a win IMHO.

do read that article

And just because you can't grasp why would someone "betray his own people" it does not mean people don't do it.

History has proven it many times. and quite a few of those betrayers lived a good life afterwards.

And TBH... naming your toons "lore friendly names" is basic "caring about lore"...
Previous TES games had LOTS of cases of betrayal, something you should know if you care about lore.
TES has EXTENSIVE lore, and entire section of UESP is dedicated to it, quite a good read IMHO.

[Echsrick]

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

yes and just see what happend whit manimarco...not realy something that would say "i won" after all he lost in the end

You failed to see part where he became a god... 8 centuries after ESO... Quite a long life, even for an altmer.

Quite a win IMHO.

do read that article

And just because you can't grasp why would someone "betray his own people" it does not mean people don't do it.

History has proven it many times. and quite a few of those betrayers lived a good life afterwards.

And TBH... naming your toons "lore friendly names" is basic "caring about lore"...
Previous TES games had LOTS of cases of betrayal, something you should know if you care about lore.
TES has EXTENSIVE lore, and entire section of UESP is dedicated to it, quite a good read IMHO.

i know but its alsol a matter of an persons view betraying someone has not realy to do whit the lore thats an basic person behavior someone can do and then another persons view on betraying someone is seen as an very bad thing that has to be stoped its realy easy it dont matter if the betrayer dit life a good life or what ever what matters is the view point of an person you sould try it out trying to see something of the point of someone else makes understanding someone way more easy and even more so if you have asperger autisim like me that has proplems understanding someone thats like a trick of trying to see the view points of others

[drunken.dx]

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

You failed to see part where he became a god... 8 centuries after ESO... Quite a long life, even for an altmer.

Quite a win IMHO.

do read that article

And just because you can't grasp why would someone "betray his own people" it does not mean people don't do it.

History has proven it many times. and quite a few of those betrayers lived a good life afterwards.

And TBH... naming your toons "lore friendly names" is basic "caring about lore"...
Previous TES games had LOTS of cases of betrayal, something you should know if you care about lore.
TES has EXTENSIVE lore, and entire section of UESP is dedicated to it, quite a good read IMHO.

i know but its alsol a matter of an persons view betraying someone has not realy to do whit the lore thats an basic person behavior someone can do and then another persons view on betraying someone is seen as an very bad thing that has to be stoped its realy easy it dont matter if the betrayer dit life a good life or what ever what matters is the view point of an person you sould try it out trying to see something of the point of someone else makes understanding someone way more easy and even more so if you have asperger autisim like me that has proplems understanding someone thats like a trick of trying to see the view points of others

I honestly CAN'T read that mess you wrote.

use dots and commas and end sentence now and then.

[Echsrick]

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

i know but its alsol a matter of an persons view betraying someone has not realy to do whit the lore thats an basic person behavior someone can do and then another persons view on betraying someone is seen as an very bad thing that has to be stoped its realy easy it dont matter if the betrayer dit life a good life or what ever what matters is the view point of an person you sould try it out trying to see something of the point of someone else makes understanding someone way more easy and even more so if you have asperger autisim like me that has proplems understanding someone thats like a trick of trying to see the view points of others

I honestly CAN'T read that mess you wrote.

use dots and commas and end sentence now and then.

this excuse again...i hate it ever think of that some people cant be doin that because they just dont see the logic of . ? because i cant see how it helps reading just read please