Mudballing

[Arlen]

let me start with a caveat, I do not RP. If your idea of fun is to fling mudballs at RP'ers for an extended period of time (we are talking about 15 minutes or more) despite being asked to stop repeatedly. you are a harrasser. I do not care that the game mechanics allows you to fling mudballs, your right to have fun ends when it infringes on others right to have fun. I am sure that what you are doing violates the ToS, and I am going to start sending in tickets to get your account banned, along with screenshots. They have as much, if not more, of a right to play as they wish, unimpeded, as you do - this IS a ROLEPLAYING game, and if their chat bothers you, you can filter it out, they have no mitigation against you flinging mudballs at them repeatedly, for extended periods. I put this out here because I just watched 3 people fling mudballs for over 20 minutes at people RP'ing, and no one else.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by Da Nut Crackah:

Ahh yes, I skimmed through that post just now. Basically what I expected, ZOS to not comment specifcally on the matter being discussed, and just reiterated the TOS. I think they are undecided on the issue as well. And that is where the crux of the argument kind of fails, how do you prove intent, or that someone was maliciously harassing RPers? If they say they are RPing as an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who mudballs ppl they consider strange, what is left to be done. You can report ppl for this, but if you actually want to make a difference, you are going to need to provide some pretty hard evidence that the individuals were really harassing these ppl. For the record, I don't do this, I agree its childish and obnoxious, but harassment? I mean, where does it stop? I've tried doing pve quests in Cyrodil during events before, and had the same guy murder me from stealth several times, making it impossible to turn in the quest. Is that not harassment?

Also, I think you're making a mighty leap talking about such lofty things as good and evil, in reference to..... most likely a bunch of kids being kids, or immature ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ being immature ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Would you sit idly by as someone threw eggs at your Nieghbors home? No matter what age they were? "kids being kids" is not an excuse for deliberate targeting of a group of people., or for harrassing behavior. And you miss the point of the quote entirely by taking it literally. By standing by and doing nothing, you enable this type of behavior, making it the norm instead of making it a behavior that should be curtailed.

Second, the ToS specifically states "undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt" Mudballing for 15+ minutes straight at a group of people who have asked you to stop repeatedly constitutes both "undesired behavior", and "disrupting their experience".

I pointed out earlier in this thread that mudballing is part of the game, and I have no issue with it. I have issue with it when it's repeated for an extended period of time, against a particular group of people, who have clearly expressed that they wish for the person(s) to stop, and those person(s) ignore and deliberately continue.

As for hard evidence - Screen shots and timestamps both of the individuals and the chat logs. very easy to do and include them in your ticket. The screenshots will have the character name and UserID of the parties involved, making it easier for the admins to investigate.

[Turtleswatter]

In general, with everything. If you are doing something for a joke and people ask you to stop then you stop. Continuing that form of behaviour turns it from a joke into not a joke. Whether it turns into bullying, harassment or just plain annoying is a matter of degree.

[737]

Imagine thinking you can get someone banned for throwing mudballs in a game.

Reminds me of a guy who kept whispering me telling me I was gonna get banned because I was farming NPCs and he thought he owned the damn place and I was "disrupting his gameplay and enjoyment" LOL

Newsflash: This is an MMO. It's ONLINE. People will do that and MUCH more just for the fun of it. ZOS makes the mudballs for that purpose. TO HAVE FUN and throw them at other players. Don't wanna get mudballs? Go play Gmod on a private server with your pal and RP there.

OR get this, TP to ANOTHER area. WOW, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?

[Arlen]

Originally posted by 737:

Imagine thinking you can get someone banned for throwing mudballs in a game.

Reminds me of a guy who kept whispering me telling me I was gonna get banned because I was farming NPCs and he thought he owned the damn place and I was "disrupting his gameplay and enjoyment" LOL

Newsflash: This is an MMO. It's ONLINE. People will do that and MUCH more just for the fun of it. ZOS makes the mudballs for that purpose. TO HAVE FUN and throw them at other players. Don't wanna get mudballs? Go play Gmod on a private server with your pal and RP there.

OR get this, TP to ANOTHER area. WOW, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?

Not for throwing mudballs - either you didn't read the thread, or are being deliberately ignorant. Throwing mudballs/snowballs/flowers etc etc, at a particular group, for 15+ minutes, after being asked to stop, violates the terms of service - it crosses over from being a joke to harassment. What part of the ToS do you fail to understand/grasp - when someone asks you to stop, you stop.

Here - let me post it to you so you can understand: This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks, unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience.

[737]

Yeah, I read it.
IT IS throwig mudballs, nothing else. This has been a thing in MMOs since FOREVER. People WILL do stuff like this. They're not breaking any rules. YOU can stop it if you want. Yeah, they're being ♥♥♥♥♥, but when there is such a SIMPLE way to make them stop, it doesn't even count as harrassment. You can literally just TP to another area and your problem will be solved. Those ToS are meant for people who, for example, disrupt your game by whispering you non stop, or when they cheat, or when they STEAL your guild's MONEY, making YOUR experience POOR, without you being able to do anything about it besides reporting them. People will NEVER get banned for throwing mudballs at you non stop. People CAN however get banned by using racial slurs, by whispering stuff at you that goes against ToS, by CHEATING. Those are LEGIT reasons to report someone and get them banned.

"Oh no!! This guy is throwing mudballs at me even when I asked him to stop! If only there was a way for me to get away from this place, in which case, it's gonna be very hard to find me again, I WISH THERE WAS AN OPTION TO GO TO ANOTHER AREA!"

[Arlen]

Originally posted by 737:

Imagine thinking you can get someone banned for throwing mudballs in a game.

Reminds me of a guy who kept whispering me telling me I was gonna get banned because I was farming NPCs and he thought he owned the damn place and I was "disrupting his gameplay and enjoyment" LOL

Newsflash: This is an MMO. It's ONLINE. People will do that and MUCH more just for the fun of it. ZOS makes the mudballs for that purpose. TO HAVE FUN and throw them at other players. Don't wanna get mudballs? Go play Gmod on a private server with your pal and RP there.

OR get this, TP to ANOTHER area. WOW, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT?

Further - you are using an argument that has lost countless times in Codes of Conduct or ToS disputes - it is not on the player recieving the abuse to move or go somewhere else, it is on the player who is causing the disruption to cease the behavior. You argument has been used to tell people of different races, ethnicities, and religious practices that they cannot live where they choose, and must be relegated to areas where therfe are others like them, or no one else is around. A mudball or two is one thing, dozens of mudballs when asked to stop is quite another. How some of you fail to grasp this difference tells me two things - 1. you didn't read the thread, or 2. you want to continue to harass people unopposed. Sorry - I will submit the tickets along with screenshots and timestamps and let the Admins decide.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by 737:

Yeah, I read it.
IT IS throwig mudballs, nothing else. This has been a thing in MMOs since FOREVER. People WILL do stuff like this. They're not breaking any rules. YOU can stop it if you want. Yeah, they're being ♥♥♥♥♥, but when there is such a SIMPLE way to make them stop, it doesn't even count as harrassment. You can literally just TP to another area and your problem will be solved. Those ToS are meant for people who, for example, disrupt your game by whispering you non stop, or when they cheat, or when they STEAL your guild's MONEY, making YOUR experience POOR, without you being able to do anything about it besides reporting them. People will NEVER get banned for throwing mudballs at you non stop. People CAN however get banned by using racial slurs, by whispering stuff at you that goes against ToS, by CHEATING. Those are LEGIT reasons to report someone and get them banned.

"Oh no!! This guy is throwing mudballs at me even when I asked him to stop! If only there was a way for me to get away from this place, in which case, it's gonna be very hard to find me again, I WISH THERE WAS AN OPTION TO GO TO ANOTHER AREA!"

again - WHY SHOULD THE OFFENDED PARTY MOVE??? Why is it their responsibility? when all that has to be done is the player harrassing them to stop the behavior - seriously what the heck is wrong with you - when asked to stop - stop - its that freaking simple

[737]

Originally posted by billybobtexan1000:

again - WHY SHOULD THE OFFENDED PARTY MOVE??? Why is it their responsibility? when all that has to be done is the player harrassing them to stop the behavior - seriously what the heck is wrong with you - when asked to stop - stop - its that freaking simple

That is very true. IN REAL LIFE.
Your problem is that you're comparing a game to real life. You're comparing someone having to MOVE COUNTRIES to someone having to TP IN GAME to another location. That makes NO SENSE.
This is a GAME. People WILL be jerks. DEAL WITH IT.
Why does the offended party have to move? Hm... I don't know... maybe... to STOP BEING OFFENDED? If the person will persist there is NO point in arguing. Reporting them won't do ANYTHING. IN FACT, reporting them will TAKE TIME. If you report them they're not gonna stop right away, it can take WEEKS for it to take action. So it's USELESS. They WILL keep throing mudballs at you through the duration they WANT.
Moving to another area is INSTANTENOUS. IT SOLVES your problem RIGHT AWAY.
It takes like 5 seconds to move somewhere else.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by 737:

Originally posted by billybobtexan1000:

again - WHY SHOULD THE OFFENDED PARTY MOVE??? Why is it their responsibility? when all that has to be done is the player harrassing them to stop the behavior - seriously what the heck is wrong with you - when asked to stop - stop - its that freaking simple

That is very true. IN REAL LIFE.
Your problem is that you're comparing a game to real life.
This is a GAME. People WILL be jerks. DEAL WITH IT.
Why does the offended party have to move? Hm... I don't know... maybe... to STOP BEING OFFENDED? If the person will persist there is NO point in arguing. Reporting them won't do ANYTHING. IN FACT, reporting them will TAKE TIME. If you report them they're not gonna stop right away, it can take WEEKS for it to take action. So it's USELESS.
Moving to another are is INSTANTENOUS.
It takes like 5 seconds to move somewhere else.

Again - your fallacy is "this is a game" - people spend a serious amount of their free time playing this game - further, studies frome Yale, dartmout, Penn State have determined that 70% of social interactions of people 35 and under occur in an online environment, there is no difference in harassment whether its in the physical world, or in a virtual one. Wonder why countries like Britain and Germany have draconic online interaction laws, Because people who do the harrassing, and people who sit by and allow it to happen. You are putting the responsibility and the onus upon the victim and excusing and enabling the offenders.

[Nephritho]

Someone call the waawaambulance, if people get butthurt about some "childish troll" throwing mudballs at them or someone else, they should quit playing online games and perhaps take a deep reflect on their life that mudballs being flinged at you or someone else in a video game isn't the worst thing in life that could happen, like idk corona? still sounds worse than being hit mudball in a game. Here is a protip, you can have it for free, ignore a troll and he will go away, any attempt to make them stop, yes even reporting them give them a sense of power and just continue to make you butthurt.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by Nephritho:

Someone call the waawaambulance, if people get butthurt about some "childish troll" throwing mudballs at them or someone else, they should quit playing online games and perhaps take a deep reflect on their life that mudballs being flinged at you or someone else in a video game isn't the worst thing in life that could happen, like idk corona? still sounds worse than being hit mudball in a game. Here is a protip, you can have it for free, ignore a troll and he will go away, any attempt to make them stop, yes even reporting them give them a sense of power and just continue to make you butthurt.

or perhaps the childish idiot can just stop being a harrasser.

[737]

Originally posted by billybobtexan1000:

Again - your fallacy is "this is a game" - people spend a serious amount of their free time playing this game - further, studies frome Yale, dartmout, Penn State have determined that 70% of social interactions of people 35 and under occur in an online environment, there is no difference in harassment whether its in the physical world, or in a virtual one. Wonder why countries like Britain and Germany have draconic online interaction laws, Because people who do the harrassing, and people who sit by and allow it to happen. You are putting the responsibility and the onus upon the victim and excusing and enabling the offenders.

Ok, so you think that:

A religious group, having to be forced out of their country because they can't live where they want, having to completely re-do their lives because of that is the EXACT same (or, as you say, is not much different) than someone in an online game having to spend 5 seconds of their life to move to another IN GAME location, to stop a 12 year old from throwing virtual mudballs at them. I mean, I gotta admit, those cases DO seem VERY similar, there is no difference between them. You're right on that one pal.

Again, the "harrassment" you're talking about, is, as i SAID BEFORE, USING RACIAL SLURS.
CHEATING. TELLING SOMEONE TO KILL THEMSELVES, ETC.

THAT is what those studies MEAN when they say that the harrasment is the same.

People HAVE been banned for doing that.

Guess what? Nobody in the history of humanity has ever been banned for throwing virtual mudballs in game.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by billybobtexan1000:

Originally posted by Nephritho:

Someone call the waawaambulance, if people get butthurt about some "childish troll" throwing mudballs at them or someone else, they should quit playing online games and perhaps take a deep reflect on their life that mudballs being flinged at you or someone else in a video game isn't the worst thing in life that could happen, like idk corona? still sounds worse than being hit mudball in a game. Here is a protip, you can have it for free, ignore a troll and he will go away, any attempt to make them stop, yes even reporting them give them a sense of power and just continue to make you butthurt.

or perhaps the childish idiot can just stop being a harrasser. You act and speak like anything you say here is going to deter me from what my conscious dictates, It's not, and if doing what was described in the original post is what gratifies you, my gratification will be to eliminate you from the game entirely.

[Arlen]

Originally posted by 737:

Originally posted by billybobtexan1000:

Again - your fallacy is "this is a game" - people spend a serious amount of their free time playing this game - further, studies frome Yale, dartmout, Penn State have determined that 70% of social interactions of people 35 and under occur in an online environment, there is no difference in harassment whether its in the physical world, or in a virtual one. Wonder why countries like Britain and Germany have draconic online interaction laws, Because people who do the harrassing, and people who sit by and allow it to happen. You are putting the responsibility and the onus upon the victim and excusing and enabling the offenders.

Ok, so you think that:

A religious group, having to be forced out of their country because they can't live where they want, having to completely re-do their lives because of that is the EXACT same (or, as you say, is not much different) than someone in an online game having to spend 5 seconds of their life to move to another IN GAME location, to stop a 12 year old from throwing virtual mudballs at them. I mean, I gotta admit, those cases DO seem VERY similar, there is no different between them. You're right on that one pal.

Again, the "harrassment" you're talking about, is, as i SAID BEFORE, USING RACIAL SLURS.
CHEATING. TELLING SOMEONE TO KILL THEMSELVES, ETC.

THAT is what those studies MEAN when they say that the harrasment is the same.

What part of "includes but is not limited to" or " any behaviour that causes discomfort or disrupts anothers experience" do you fail to understand?

[Arlen]

Originally posted by billybobtexan1000:

Originally posted by billybobtexan1000:

or perhaps the childish idiot can just stop being a harrasser. You act and speak like anything you say here is going to deter me from what my conscious dictates, It's not, and if doing what was described in the original post is what gratifies you, my gratification will be to eliminate you from the game entirely.

And again - I am not talking about a mudball or three - I am talking about a deliberate and calculated amount of time specifically targeting them, with the purpose of disrupting their experience or drive them away - I do not care what world or mindframe you have - that is textbook targeted harrassment, and it violates the ToS. I am not sorry if this bothers you, or outrages you, if I see it,I will report it.