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討論區規矩與守則
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It's an unfortunate crutch that the developers use in lieu of creating a more established combat system.
Although, considering how well it can pass as a single player game, as well as an MMO, I guess it fits.
weapon swap cancelling looks stupid as well
combat is stupidly light feeling
enemy aggro reset is just bizarre, for example an enemy will chase you forever UNTIL you hit it a single time, then suddenly he'll be invulnerable and go back to his post. You have to hit every enemy like that if you gathered a bunch. (aoe works well obviously)
having to weave heavy attacks to regain resources isn't fun.
weapons will random disappear
skills won't fire sometimes
cc is obnoxious sometimes
Love the game but the combat is worse than Skyrim and that's saying something.
Yes on the enemies you have to hit one time to make them run away so you can travel at the wayshrine in peace. And I am always having to un-equip my slot 1 weapons and re-equip them after logging in to make them visible again.
it's not meant to be fun, it's to allow a MMO to function, due to the input lag from so many simultaneous users playing over long distances.
and as far as PvE, the NPCs leash. so..... that's basically saying the devs don't trust users to play outside of scripted controlled scenarios.
Imo, you can't really compared WoW to ESO. WoW has a solid macro system you can use that makes combat seamless and intuitive. Additionally, you have far more abilities you can use simultaneously in WoW as compared to ESO.
WoW you actually need an MMO mouse for (if you want to save your wrists). ESO, you don't. They aren't anything alike as an MMO. This goes for mechanics and content.
And, actually, if you can write your macros properly, WoW is far more active (combat-wise) if you code in modifier keys that change what the macro does. The same macro can do different things if you use a modifier key such as control or alt. This allows you to adapt on the fly and fight seamlessly if done right. You can even create gear and macro loadouts that enhance gameplay even further.
Not awkward and clunky like ESO. Of course, I already knew what ESO was like (more or less) from seeing friends play it. We pretty much treat ESO as a break from real MMOs. It's nice and chill unlike Everquest and WoW.
I'm also just giving WoW credit since I've played it. Used to be great and fun. I had enough of their overly mediocre expansions and ever increasing grind with each one. Legion was the last straw for me.
And leash mechanics...
I miss behavior like older versions of Everquest. Stuff chases you forever. Even if the mob is slow. Even if you forget about it. It's still chasing you. And it will probably pick up a few friends (probably ALOT of friends) on it's way to finding you. Lol. And when it does...rofl, hilarity ensues. Those caught in the middle or accidentally run into your train probably don't think it's funny, though. LOL.
Sorry for the long wait on my reply here.
I couldn't disagree more personally. I've played WoW.
No matter how you butter it up standing still, auto locked on a target, going through your same 2-3 skills is less engaging than ESO's system.
You might have multiple skills active in WoW, but that's all they are. Just active abilities. Your usual rotation typically involves at most 3 skills. Which is why so many MMO's nowadays remove the excess because it's just giving the illusion of complexity.
Just because you have 53 skills crammed on your 8 hotbars doesn't mean the system is complex. You typically have maybe 3 that you use in regular rotation and you might use skill #54 once in a long blue moon when the conditions are right OR if they aren't situational they are just active buffs/debuffs that you don't pay attention to outside of just making sure they're still on.
I've played WoW and EQ2 and many other tab target MMO's. Standing still (when not dodging AoE) clicking on skills isn't engaging.
In my mind ESO takes the best of the traditional MMO system with the best of GW2.
Skills aren't locked to weapons so you're free to change up your skills whenever you want to any build you want (unlike GW2) but it also uses a reduced hotbar size in favor of a more active fighting system that doesn't rely on essentially standing still to activate skills.
Aside from black dragon online I haven't seen a better combat system than ESO's in an MMO.
ESO has rotations too of course. It is still more engaging than the traditional tab target system or GW2's locked in ability system in my op.
Cooldowns? ESO doesn't have cooldowns.
I don't get the problem with NPC leashing. I find it incredibly annoying when NPC's chase me across the entire continent. I don't know of a single modern game that DOESN'T leash NPC's in an RPG let alone MMO. Skyrim/dragon age/ pillars of eternity/ etc etc all leash NPC's.
The player shouldn't have to spend 24 minutes running away from a mob that is for some reason so hell bent on their destruction as to chase them across land and sea.
As for the comparison between ESO and WoW I mean.. unsure what to say there if you believe active combat is not meaningfully different then tab combat.
It's as different as GW2 is. In fact a little more so sense GW2 actually does utilize tab targeting as well for certain things.
The combat is somehow worse than skyrim? I think you've got your rose glasses on.
Skyrims combat doesn't even have skills, it's literally left clicking with a shout.
I've actually never had a skill not fire and you can get out of CC by holding left/right mouse buttons.
The game has all of the nuances skyrim does plus a little extra due to staggering mechanics/cc mechanics/dodge roll mechanics/ attack weaving/ many more skills. (if you're anything but a mage in skyrim combat is just left click until they're dead).
But also because people don't realize there are advanced techniques, so they just spam the same 1 attack until they run out of resources, at which point they then spam lights and heavies.
I love the traditional system, but the combat in ESO is growing on me. I would really like a few more abilities and slots and I am not sure I will ever enjoy that ARPG hotbar swapping, but I enjoy this blend of stats based and technique based custom combat.
Anyway, that topic had me itching to write up a reply, so I'll do it here instead, because this confusion around why ESO combat is bad is quite confusing to me personally.
Of course, this is all just my opinion and if you don't agree, that's fine! I'm just offering this information up for anyone trying to figure out why their friends might not be itching to play this game with them.
It's not about light and heavy attacks, or ye olde animation cancelling or anything like that.
It's the same reason why all Elder Scrolls combat is bad: It's weightless, floaty, has no impact, and feels and looks like people are swinging styrofoam weapons at each other. There is no art or passion put into making the combat have even a miniscule amount of kick.
Go boot up DMC5. Beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of an enemy. See how it flinches and gets thrown around and the sounds are meaty, and your weapon swings are fast and frenetic and have great sound design?
Now imagine if it was like any Elder Scrolls game. Your weapon swing would be slow and graceless, it would slide through the enemy with no reaction or almost no reaction (maybe you'll get a model twitch!) and the sounds would be the lamest, tinniest "clink" you'd ever heard.
It feels bad and unresponsive, it is bad combat. Now is it horrendous? No, it's perfectly functional and plenty of people enjoy it just fine. But to those of us who play many more games than what I assume are folks who likely stick to a few of their favorite franchises, it's just completely unsatisfying.
But even if we keep it in the MMO genre, we can easily make comparisons to other games:
In WoW, every button press, assuming you're not lagging, is instant and impactful. The actual attacks are a lot like ESO but your camera is pulled a lot further out so it doesn't matter as much, and you're constantly attacking. Its failings are well hidden behind fast and frantic action.
In FFXIV, the combat is slower like in ESO, but there's a very deliberate rhythm, almost like a rhythm game, to how you play at max level. You can "feel" when you're playing your class right and that flow state is hypnotic. You can sort of use your rotation as a metronome for how far you in to a battle. Some folks can tell if you're doing a rotation wrong just by sound because the sound design is so spot on and full of information that actually makes playing easier. There was just a recent video talking about these points and it finally put into words exactly what I felt about FFXIV's combat that early on feels just slow, rather than rhythmic.
In GW2, it's quite responsive like WoW, but with more weighty combat animations, your character's animations have a ton of weight despite responding instantly, making it a delight to watch if you're zoomed in a bit closer. Again, great sound design, great feedback. Pushing buttons feels good. It's snappy! It has few abilities like ESO but each one feels so much better to use.
For the person reading this, maybe you disagree about all these, but to me, you spend so much time in combat within an MMO (and in RPGs in general) that the combat being the "weakest part" is not acceptable. You spend almost as much time in combat in Elder Scrolls games as doing anything else, if not more. What if your walk and run speeds were just 50% slower? Would you then say "well the world traversal is the weakest part, but other than that..." no! That would be unacceptable! A lot easier to fix than "hire a team who is good at making excellent combat in RPGs" but it's just an example.
To me, the weakest part of your game should not be front and center, it should be some side thing. The weakest part of FFXIV was almost universally agreed upon to be PvP. Now imagine if it was an open-world PvP game where most updates focused on adding more PvP features. That would be silly, and less people would play. But instead, PvP had its own little area that no one had to interact with if they didn't want to. It's a lot better now, super fun in fact, but it's still off to the side. Put your best foot forward is a saying that I find quite apt here. In a slightly more literal sense than intended -- a game's best features should be what the game is developed around. If a game is developed around its weakest features, you need to massively improve them!
Speaking from a PvP perspective, combat is a joke.
From a PvE one? It's just one big, giant DPS race and that's an issue the dev team can address by adding mechanics that actually punish DPS more.
Stacking and burning with sets that get more and more OP as time goes on, isn't creative nor is it innovative.
Neither is a 1-piece mythic that gives you nearly every buff in the game for little cost.