curious, why do people say the combat is bad?

[Night]

I'm honestly curious about this, has it just improved lately? I know when I first started years ago people would complain the combat wasn't any good.

As an archer I find it more engaging than... say.. skyrim.
In skyrim all i do is left click for archery... in eso I have different skills and variation.

unlike GW2 my abilities aren't tied to my weapons either so I have a wide variety of builds.


I'm mostly curious to see if I'm missing something and it just gets bad later on or something. Right now though (level 9) I see nothing wrong with it.

It's certainly more involved than base skyrim where if I'm playing a pure archer I simply left click my way to victory. Occasionally using a shout.

[Bloodstained Fay]

It's either because:
1) People are too tied up on it not being like Skyrim.
2) Most builds (for the same role use the exact same abilities with one or two different ones depending on class and attributes, and since 90% of the player base copies said builds (yours truly included) instead of making their own they find using the same abilities boring and lame.

[mysteryman115]

Or, that most weapons in the game are melee, save for bows and elemental staffs

[Salreth]

I'm going to break it down how I see it as someone who has played thousands of hours of ESO and all the other TES games. Most people I see complaining about the combat usually note two legitimate points. Those points are that the combat is too floaty and that there is an animation canceling meta.

Regarding the first point, I believe that most people go into this game expecting it to handle like TES games or other games of that nature. Skyrim had combat that was severely simplified compared to what ESO offers however it made up for it by making the combat feel weighty. Enemies had critical spots, multiple animations when responding to damage, and were tuned to singleplayer so they weren't that tanky. The floaty combat I find is a flaw of the MMO limitations where enemies are a little more tanky, have no direct crit spots, and limited visual feedback when receiving damage.

On the other hand I find that ESO has much more engaging combat due to the abilites and class synergies. There is a whole lot more to a combat loop then just taping and holding left click like skyrim. The issue of enemy tankyness is also really an early game problem. I find that a normal combat loop for me lasts less than 30 seconds. A new player might be spamming their greatsword for 30 or more seconds just to kill one enemy. It really comes down to the abilities you use and how you use them. I honestly feel like most people that complain about combat are the same people that go two-handed dragon knight and complain because their greatsword doesn't do enough damage. (IMO dragonknights have a harder time early game because their good damage skills dont come till the end of their skill lines)

The second point about animation canceling is an issue but not for the average player. Animation cancelling does help you pull higher dps numbers and is pretty essential in late endgame content but it's not necessary for an average player and the places where it really benefits is less than 1% of the game. The devs are also actively finding ways to help bridge the gap between players who do it and players that don't, the recent PTS server has experimental fixes to try and lower the skill ceiling.

I apologize for the wall of text but it's just something I have a strong opinion about as it is the most common complaint of the game. I don't think the combat is bad but it is not for everyone especially if you don't like MMOs. It's good enough to where I've played over 2500 hours and never had a complaint.

[Aku]

I really don't know of any mmo where you can say the combat is amazing. Some are more fun than others I guess. In Star Wars the Old Republic you have way more options in combat that in ESO with its fixed action bars. There are pros and cons to that. Obviously ESO is easier when you only have five abilities and one ultimate to deal with at a time. The combat in ESO is fun enough for me. I like some classes better than others, it's just a preference.

[Salreth]

Originally posted by serrapadre:

I really don't know of any mmo where you can say the combat is amazing. Some are more fun than others I guess. In Star Wars the Old Republic you have way more options in combat that in ESO with its fixed action bars. There are pros and cons to that. Obviously ESO is easier when you only have five abilities and one ultimate to deal with at a time. The combat in ESO is fun enough for me. I like some classes better than others, it's just a preference.

Yeah I don't think there is an MMO that is amazing at everything otherwise everyone would be praising it as the next WoW or something. Black Desert Online is one of the only MMOs I know with really amazing combat. Unfortunately, most other aspects of the game falls short which ruins the experience.

[Illuminary]

Just started playing myself, but my biggest issue is not being able to click on the skill bar with the mouse, like in other MMORPGs (unless you can change a setting). It's a pain in the neck moving around dodging while playing twister with your left hand activating skills.

[SpYmAtE]

Wait... did they compare it to Skyrim?! Skyrim is a whole different game when it comes to gameplay! This is a MMORPG game and a good one. People that say these things want gameplay like what? WoW?! That game is DEAD. Other? BDO?! That game is not even MMORPG, it's more like a action hack and slash game.

[Aku]

Originally posted by Illuminary:

Just started playing myself, but my biggest issue is not being able to click on the skill bar with the mouse, like in other MMORPGs (unless you can change a setting). It's a pain in the neck moving around dodging while playing twister with your left hand activating skills.

Right, in SWTOR I just click-click-click. In ESO I am constantly fat fingering and have died because of it.

[Turtleswatter]

Salreth, I wish I could upvote your post :)

[Grunt]

imo Magicka builds dont really feel like your a mage like im not throwing my spells idk something is just off with animations or something thats what is throwing me off i dont feel like my spells are being thrown they seem like they just apear

[MightyJean]

Originally posted by Illuminary:

Just started playing myself, but my biggest issue is not being able to click on the skill bar with the mouse, like in other MMORPGs (unless you can change a setting). It's a pain in the neck moving around dodging while playing twister with your left hand activating skills.

That's exactly why mouses like the Razer Naga (there's just 5 skill slots here so a Naga Hex is probably more than enough) exist. I use one since my SWTOR days and I couldn't do without it now.

[Paprika]

i guess people dont play enough to see possibilities. i started as a standard rogue idea with nightblade. then turned to healer with vampire and blood magic. having a lot of fun with combat and healing same time. melee is a bit more boring but casting is a lot fun.

[DiscoJer]

My problem is that you seem to need three hands do it. You need to click with the mouse to aim and regular attack, you need another hand to move, and you need the third to press the skill buttons

Or a 5 button mouse. But I don't have one of those (or 3 hands)

[Raiden]

Originally posted by DiscoJer:

My problem is that you seem to need three hands do it. You need to click with the mouse to aim and regular attack, you need another hand to move, and you need the third to press the skill buttons

Or a 5 button mouse. But I don't have one of those (or 3 hands)

Git gud maybe?

[Night]

Originally posted by Salreth:

I'm going to break it down how I see it as someone who has played thousands of hours of ESO and all the other TES games. Most people I see complaining about the combat usually note two legitimate points. Those points are that the combat is too floaty and that there is an animation canceling meta.

Regarding the first point, I believe that most people go into this game expecting it to handle like TES games or other games of that nature. Skyrim had combat that was severely simplified compared to what ESO offers however it made up for it by making the combat feel weighty. Enemies had critical spots, multiple animations when responding to damage, and were tuned to singleplayer so they weren't that tanky. The floaty combat I find is a flaw of the MMO limitations where enemies are a little more tanky, have no direct crit spots, and limited visual feedback when receiving damage.

On the other hand I find that ESO has much more engaging combat due to the abilites and class synergies. There is a whole lot more to a combat loop then just taping and holding left click like skyrim. The issue of enemy tankyness is also really an early game problem. I find that a normal combat loop for me lasts less than 30 seconds. A new player might be spamming their greatsword for 30 or more seconds just to kill one enemy. It really comes down to the abilities you use and how you use them. I honestly feel like most people that complain about combat are the same people that go two-handed dragon knight and complain because their greatsword doesn't do enough damage. (IMO dragonknights have a harder time early game because their good damage skills dont come till the end of their skill lines)

The second point about animation canceling is an issue but not for the average player. Animation cancelling does help you pull higher dps numbers and is pretty essential in late endgame content but it's not necessary for an average player and the places where it really benefits is less than 1% of the game. The devs are also actively finding ways to help bridge the gap between players who do it and players that don't, the recent PTS server has experimental fixes to try and lower the skill ceiling.

I apologize for the wall of text but it's just something I have a strong opinion about as it is the most common complaint of the game. I don't think the combat is bad but it is not for everyone especially if you don't like MMOs. It's good enough to where I've played over 2500 hours and never had a complaint.

This is a interesting and in depth response.
I don't do the whole animation cancelling thing (at least not on purpose) so I can't really comment on that. It seems dumb and seems kind of exploit-y. I understand it's probably recommended for harder fights.

As far as the first point I don't really feel the combat to be that floaty. I mean, when I shoot people with an arrow in regular skyrim and they fly halfway across the room seems rediculous.

In eso when I smack someone to death with a great sword they seem to feel the weight on the finishing blow.

Arrows I think are understandably subtle. In real life if a person is killed with an arrow they don't go flying backwards. Arrows have less force than a gunshot. Sure, it'll pierce you and hurt. Unless kratos himself is shooting you your feet aren't going to be leaving the ground though, even at point blank range.

You might, at most, fall backwards. Which is how it's handled here.

I think the only thing they could do to improve archery for me is to make the arrows stick. That would be pretty cool to make pincushions out of enemies. Then again that would probably start to get rediculous when fighting bosses. 1,000 arrow pin-cushions are not engaging.