Am I the only gamer who really HATES Scaling?

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Remember the days where a MMORPG was so punishing that if you went too far into the map exploring, you got wrecked so fast. And you would try kicking that target that was 3 or 4 levels higher and you felt godlike when you beat the higher level mob.


Now, MMORPG are prettymuch ♥♥♥♥♥cat friendly. Awww, little Jonny wants to go to the level 20 area, but hes level 5, lets scale down the damage so Little Jonny can play with all the other players who spend the last month, year and longer to get to the same content.


Progression MMORPG is what I love. By scaling damage, the progression feels pointless.

Now I like this MMORPG, dont get me wrong, not bashing it, but every mmorpg is scaling today.

WOW
ESO
SWTOR
GW2

Just W T F? Is there any mmorpgs left that dont hold our hands and cater to the carebear community? I want to fee rewarded for getting to a point, not be a level 1 in a level 30 area.

[Fenris]

I both agree and disagree.

Most MMO's level gate(scale) things so its impossible to fight monsters higher than you so its not about difficulty or skill its just enemies mathed(scaled) to be impossible to fight.

In Single player RPG's where gear and enemies are not level dependent and you can purposely fight harder content to get those better rewards is fantastic.

MMO's where you want to play with your friends but a few levels make xp and monster scaling not worth it just isn't enjoyable. ESO's Tamriel unlimited was a master stroke for the game making it very accessible and allowed you to enjoy all content with anyone at any point.

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Originally posted by Fenris:

I both agree and disagree.

Most MMO's level gate(scale) things so its impossible to fight monsters higher than you so its not about difficulty or skill its just enemies mathed(scaled) to be impossible to fight.

In Single player RPG's where gear and enemies are not level dependent and you can purposely fight harder content to get those better rewards is fantastic.

MMO's where you want to play with your friends but a few levels make xp and monster scaling not worth it just isn't enjoyable. ESO's Tamriel unlimited was a master stroke for the game making it very accessible and allowed you to enjoy all content with anyone at any point.

+1

You make a valid point. I personally have no friends who play mmorpgs. The closest to MMO they play is ark or pubg, which are not mmorpgs.


What I would have rather seen them do, is

1. Give an option to opt into scaling or

2. When in a Group, players scale to the level of the Group Master. Example. You are Level 30 and invite me at level 10. I am now Level 10 scaled to 30 for the content group. But once disbanded I go back to level 10. If I start a group, you scale to level 10, Until group is disbanded.


I do get not everybody has the same time to play. Hell, When most people were playing WOW, I was married with children and working 2 jobs. I am now divorced, kids are grown and feel as if I missed out on the best years of MMORPGs I get the game catered to the masses, but it feels like the entire idea of progression is lost in mmorpgs today. But ESO is still a damn fun mmorpg either way.

[frogprincess_q4]

The one thing that really annoyed me before they brought in One Tamriel was out-levelling an area and no longer being able to collect loot.

The thing that really annoys me about One Tamriel is people starting wherever and the story losing a sense of progression and cohesion, for myself I can still play things in order if I like, but there are a lot of confused new players, especially ones that get started in the Chapter zones.

One of the really important things about One Tamriel is that is allows all zones to be well populated. Before, once you reached Cadwell's Gold, the world was nearly empty. I personally didn't mind that for the most part, but it made the world - and the game - feel a little dead.

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Originally posted by frogprincess_q4:

The one thing that really annoyed me before they brought in One Tamriel was out-levelling an area and no longer being able to collect loot.

The thing that really annoys me about One Tamriel is people starting wherever and the story losing a sense of progression and cohesion, for myself I can still play things in order if I like, but there are a lot of confused new players, especially ones that get started in the Chapter zones.

One of the really important things about One Tamriel is that is allows all zones to be well populated. Before, once you reached Cadwell's Gold, the world was nearly empty. I personally didn't mind that for the most part, but it made the world - and the game - feel a little dead.

Outleveling an area would indeed blow big. I am an achievement Junkie, If I see something that says kill 1 million of this mob for an achievement, Ill sit there for the next 2 month killing that damn stag over and over to unlock it lol. I miss that progression. But meh, I have not played ESO in about 6 month. Waiting on the Super Slow installer to install the game lol

[EViLiSLuRKiNG]

Is there anyone left that just plays the games for fun and not the reward?

Why do so many feel they need some kind of reward for there effort or hard work.What happen to the days someone did a hard days work and called it a day and didn't expect some kind of prize.

I remember at one time the only reward you got for beating a game/boss was either a next level or end game screen.Now people want trinkets for every little thing they do playing a game because no longer is beating said boss/level enough of a reward.


"Now I like this MMORPG, dont get me wrong, not bashing it, but every mmorpg is scaling today."

Only you did bash it by pretty much calling anyone who doesn't mind the scaling a wimp and need there hand held.

Funny how the same ones that want zone level locks are the same ones that seek out meta builds to make end game easier and take less time but brag how they want a challenge and wish to have level zones back yet I rarely see anyone who doesn't run some meta build/gear to make the game easier.

The same bosses that are only OP because of one hit AOE and huge amounts of HP pools it's artificial hardness at it's best and no amount of progression during end game is going to do any good as it still won't be enough to even remotely be on there same level and your so OP for the rest of the content all you have left is a grind.


Grinding is not progression,it's busy work and adding back zone levels just props that up even more.If your going to have any busy work at least save it for the end game I don't want to spend an extra say 20 hours grinding a couple levels just to go to the next zone because I completed every quest and still not at the level.As the only way you make progression is with some sort of grind you either make leveling low or they enemy is always one step ahead of you until you get over the level cap.

[frogprincess_q4]

Originally posted by EViLiSLuRKiNG:

Is there anyone left that just plays the games for fun and not the reward?

Why do so many feel they need some kind of reward for there effort or hard work.What happen to the days someone did a hard days work and called it a day and didn't expect some kind of prize.

I remember at one time the only reward you got for beating a game/boss was either a next level or end game screen.Now people want trinkets for every little thing they do playing a game because no longer is beating said boss/level enough of a reward.

<snip>

I'm not sure if that's directed at me, but as a crafter I was unable to collect crafting recipes and mats when I had out-levelled the zone I was in. That was the loot that I was particularly bothered about.

[Wizzy Woozy]

the various factions, cross zone, whatever that this game does I think is the reason.

[Champion]

ZOS have incompetent developers. Every time they bring updates after maintenance they broke game.

[Champion]

And i don't know if steam messages reach to their view.

[EViLiSLuRKiNG]

Originally posted by frogprincess_q4:

Originally posted by EViLiSLuRKiNG:

Is there anyone left that just plays the games for fun and not the reward?

Why do so many feel they need some kind of reward for there effort or hard work.What happen to the days someone did a hard days work and called it a day and didn't expect some kind of prize.

I remember at one time the only reward you got for beating a game/boss was either a next level or end game screen.Now people want trinkets for every little thing they do playing a game because no longer is beating said boss/level enough of a reward.

<snip>

I'm not sure if that's directed at me, but as a crafter I was unable to collect crafting recipes and mats when I had out-levelled the zone I was in. That was the loot that I was particularly bothered about.

It was more directed at the OP and his comment about his version of progression is getting some sort of reward.The progression and reward for me is beating the content and if I get something for my effort great but my joy comes from beating something that was tough regardless if it drops something.

I just don't like grinding countless zones and bosses for random gear I don't see that as progression but busy work to give the game artificial content.I work around that though as I know a lot people play this game for that reason they love grinding out missions and gear and such.

[James Howlette]

Idk how I feel about the scaling.

On one hand it's great because it gives more casual players with less time investment a chance to explore the map and the quest lines in any order that they want.

On the other hand, once you have invested time; gotten a character to level 50, have a few hundred champ points under your belt, and kitted your character out with a gear viable for vet dungeons... the scaling makes the story / zone quests much less enjoyable.

You do a dozen quests leading up to whatever world threatening villain has taken up residence in the region, only to fight a boss that can't even put a scratch on a half decent tank and is melted in seconds by a half decent dps.

Playing through zone or story quests with lower leveled friends in ESO doesn't feel all that much different than being massively over leveled in any other game, even with the scaling.

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Originally posted by EViLiSLuRKiNG:

Is there anyone left that just plays the games for fun and not the reward?

Why do so many feel they need some kind of reward for there effort or hard work.What happen to the days someone did a hard days work and called it a day and didn't expect some kind of prize.

I remember at one time the only reward you got for beating a game/boss was either a next level or end game screen.Now people want trinkets for every little thing they do playing a game because no longer is beating said boss/level enough of a reward.


"Now I like this MMORPG, dont get me wrong, not bashing it, but every mmorpg is scaling today."

Only you did bash it by pretty much calling anyone who doesn't mind the scaling a wimp and need there hand held.

Funny how the same ones that want zone level locks are the same ones that seek out meta builds to make end game easier and take less time but brag how they want a challenge and wish to have level zones back yet I rarely see anyone who doesn't run some meta build/gear to make the game easier.

The same bosses that are only OP because of one hit AOE and huge amounts of HP pools it's artificial hardness at it's best and no amount of progression during end game is going to do any good as it still won't be enough to even remotely be on there same level and your so OP for the rest of the content all you have left is a grind.


Grinding is not progression,it's busy work and adding back zone levels just props that up even more.If your going to have any busy work at least save it for the end game I don't want to spend an extra say 20 hours grinding a couple levels just to go to the next zone because I completed every quest and still not at the level.As the only way you make progression is with some sort of grind you either make leveling low or they enemy is always one step ahead of you until you get over the level cap.

Wow, Somebody is passive aggressive. I dont want any special loot or anything. I just like the sense of progression. I like this game. But all these "newer" mmorpgs dont have any real sense of progression. Older MMORPGS were more risk vs reward and time spend meant better results.


Grinding can be fun and rewarding. If you are willing to be a crafting and invest 2 months of crafting 1 item, you should be able to have the best crafted item of that profession. Now if others wants that same item, they can buy it from you or do the same hard work to get that weapon. Its work, sure, but its fun being able to level up, going to that higher tier area, getting the resources, dodging high level mobs and or pvp gankers, and becoming a legendary crafter where players from around the world of whatever mmorpg you are on will know your name by your crafting skills.


If you just wanna rush to end game content, thats cool, Me personally, I am always a master Crafter or a Market Man style mmorpger, but alot of these mmorpgs are killing the crafters with their new style of scale, if everybody can craft the same items, then whats the point of becoming a crafter? Its bad enough there is no open market, you need to join a traders guild to set up shop, and alot of new players cant figure it out for a little while.

I guess I am still stuck in the time warp of Star Wars galaxies and Fallen Earth where 100% of everything is player crafted or if its npc given, its weaker than player crafted stuff, and while coins where easy to make, crafting the top gear items took dedication.


So yeah, I am not bashing this or any other mmorpg. I am merely voicing aloud that the trend of current mmorpgs are killing the progression and the craftmans in the game today. MMORPGS tend to play more like single player or co op games, which is fine, I have no issues meeting 4 or 5 random people to do a dungeon. Just wish they made crafting something worthy of old. But I guess I am just an old relic.

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Originally posted by Champion:

And i don't know if steam messages reach to their view.

Kindly keep your posts on topic, you posted twice, both of which have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Thanks

[RTX 5080 FE(Mr Happy)]

Originally posted by EViLiSLuRKiNG:

Originally posted by frogprincess_q4:

I'm not sure if that's directed at me, but as a crafter I was unable to collect crafting recipes and mats when I had out-levelled the zone I was in. That was the loot that I was particularly bothered about.

It was more directed at the OP and his comment about his version of progression is getting some sort of reward.The progression and reward for me is beating the content and if I get something for my effort great but my joy comes from beating something that was tough regardless if it drops something.

I just don't like grinding countless zones and bosses for random gear I don't see that as progression but busy work to give the game artificial content.I work around that though as I know a lot people play this game for that reason they love grinding out missions and gear and such.

Not sure where you thought I was talking or wanting loot? Please tell me where I said I wanted any type of reward? Please where did I say I wanted any reward?

The reward of non scaling mmorpg is being able to beat a mob 1 or 2 or 3 levels higher, or being able to sneak through a map where everything could 1 shot you if you are caught, but using stealth and patience you can explore new zones above your skill level.


Killing the same type of mob over and over might unlock an achievement or 2, which most steam games do that, is always fun. Crafting a certain item 100 times would allow you to make a better variant of that item. Craft that 1 500 times and now you have an ever greater variant. Craft it 1000 times you are not a master crafter.(numbers just an example) But in old mmorpgs it took dedication and you usually only mastered into 1 or 2 lines of crafting. MMORPGS today you can be a master of anything and everything in a fraction of the time.


Just seems more like a cheap thrill. But like I said, maybe I am just living in the past, and desperately trying to find the mmorpgs that I remember, but time has moved on, and so has the game style of mmorpgs today,

[Wu Tang Financial]

We live in an instant gratification society nowadays which is the issue. There used to be a pride felt in grinding for weeks just to obtain an item or to hit the next level on the XP bar. The younger generation for the most part these days is easily distracted and there are other games to choose from. Take WOW for instance. Nowadays you can pay 60 bucks to jump to lvl 115. Thats crazy to me. It took months of grinding and doing the same annoying dungeons over and over just to get there. But when you did, you walked around with a certain pride and by then you knew how to play that character well. Nowadays no one cares, they just want the instant reward and fun

Similar concept with scaling. Kids dont want to wait to join those lvl 30 groups or get wiped in one shot by wandering into a zone theyre not ready for. They'll get frustrated and go play something else. Developers give in to it