Rune prison/cage/etc discussion

[Lucifearus]

After reading up that they plan to make rune prison on sorc dodgeable, im somewhat annoyed? I play sorc, and i agree, rune prison needs a nerf, but dont you all agree it should break upon recieved damage and crystal frag should have its knockdown back? It allows for counterplay. IMO, just a dicussion, drop your opinions. Plus to boost.

[Lucifearus]

Addtionally, i heard they were nerfing the dmg output on sload very minorly while also making it possibly dodgeable, is it also agreed that it should simply be non stackable between players? Along with removing the ability for it to proc itself? Just another interesting message i think zos may need to properly understand.

[Sly-Scale]

You don't know how PvP damage works.

These nerfs are aimed at fixing the lack of counterplay against these two things.

The only surefire way to kill an enemy player is to wipe out their entire health bar before they get a chance to shield up, drink a potion, block, roll-dodge, or heal themselves. If any of those things happen, there goes your prospect at a kill for the moment. Long enough for them to strike back.

Sload's Semblance is a slap in the face against defensive counterplay. Not only does it not consume magicka, stamina or ability-casting time to deal its damage, Sload's Semblance ignores damage shielding, ignores Battle Spirit's 50% damage reduction, ignores armor, ignores the attacker being Maimed and ignores the target having Protection. Meaning, even if your target has shielded up and struck you with both Major and Minor Maim, Sload's Semblance can feel like you instantly broke their damage shielding and are dealing 4k damage per second to them. In short, Sload's Semblance is invalidating a lot of intelligent gameplay techniques with a very beatstick method.

Rune Cage is the other slap in the face. If you've ever been hit with a Rune Cage, you'll know that, having spent your remaining stamina on a roll-dodge, you will be:
-still stunned anyway,
-at half health,
-unable to Break Free,
-unable to heal yourself,
-left to die at the hands of someone who could have cast Rune Cage at 20% health and still be safe from your Nightblade's ranged Impale execute.

Your killer could have had two drops of magicka left, they could have arranged their skills so they hit harder but can't heal while finishing you off, they could have been completely unprepared for a stun and counter-attack.

If your killer's Rune Cage was dodged, they would have been punished for getting reckless like that. Instead, YOU are the one getting punished, for predicting that they would stun you or continue to hurt you.

A dodge-proof stun in your back pocket is nothing more than a lame crutch. It takes being Rune Caged once in a duel to understand: your killer won by casting a stun at the wrong time (for other classes.)

[Wendigo]

rune cage is life. stop killing skills and classes with nerfs.

[Crixus]

Rune cage is really good but I would be fine with no nerf as long as they just fixed the stupid break free. I get rune caged and break free does nothing untill the meteor has already landed on my head.

And yeah sloads being dodgeable changes nothing for me. Having to dodge everyones sloads or still get them stacked is just going to destroy my stamina really quickly. So either I play without no stamina and die happy that sloads wasn't in the recap or play like I am now and die because I have 4 stacks of sloads on me.

Just 2 players applying bleeds and sloads means your taking 4k dmg a sec that you can't mitigate.

Only way to balance sloads and bleeds is to make them not stackable imo.

[Lucifearus]

EXACTLY! I just feel theyre making rune cage GARBAGE by making it dodgeable. At that point why not use flame reach? I think they should make it BREAK on recieved damage, that way players arent stunned in like a cage and an ult at once and get frequent break bugs..

[Lucifearus]

Making it dodgeable just tosses the skill in the garbage instead of providing an actual fix for it. Personally, i also cant believe they only plan to make sloads dodgeable somehow, i think it needs more of a nerf, that oblivion damage just completely kills 1vx and all counterplay.

[Lucifearus]

If anything rune cage should be similar to fossilize where its at least still somewhat decent instead of totally killing it, drop its range down and make it break on a certain amount of recieved dmg.

[Lucifearus]

I mean mag nighblade owns everything rn, pve dps wise, pvp skill wise. I just think it's a little dumb they completely killed crystal frag and its counterplay while hyper buffing rune prison only to also garbage can that skill too. Bring crystal frag back, get rid of rune prison or at least make it able to be countered and break on recieved damage to prevent Cc stacking bugs!!

[Lucifearus]

Sload needs to not be stackable! Making it dodgeable is a buff for stam players but no solution for everyone else who is mag! I say buff lightly because even if stam COULD dodge it, it procs TO much and procs off itself while it stacks up, i dont know how you can dodge a stacking effect! Making all this oblivion damage in PVP that has no counterplay ONLY encourages players to build tankier and tankier due to survivability issues. Giving infused a buff already gave a massive buff to damage health glyphs, we really dont need more sets like shieldbreaker or sload to top off the lack of counterplay in PVP already. It's an absolute shame to enter BGs which had such a GOOD concept, only to be greeted by 10000 players spamming oblivion damage, lethal arrows + procs, and tank builds. I'm saying this as a ranked player monthly, it has to change, PVP is NOT fun right now. Sure, sloads is LESS common in cyrodil, but the server issues are so bad it's HARDLY playable. The cyrodil servers NEED an upgrade and i still dont understand WHY we have so MANY damn campaigns, it encourages botting and emp farming, properly ruining ALL incentive on the emp title itself. Sad.

[Lucifearus]

Originally posted by ShMo:

You don't know how PvP damage works.

These nerfs are aimed at fixing the lack of counterplay against these two things.

The only surefire way to kill an enemy player is to wipe out their entire health bar before they get a chance to shield up, drink a potion, block, roll-dodge, or heal themselves. If any of those things happen, there goes your prospect at a kill for the moment. Long enough for them to strike back.

Sload's Semblance is a slap in the face against defensive counterplay. Not only does it not consume magicka, stamina or ability-casting time to deal its damage, Sload's Semblance ignores damage shielding, ignores Battle Spirit's 50% damage reduction, ignores armor, ignores the attacker being Maimed and ignores the target having Protection. Meaning, even if your target has shielded up and struck you with both Major and Minor Maim, Sload's Semblance can feel like you instantly broke their damage shielding and are dealing 4k damage per second to them. In short, Sload's Semblance is invalidating a lot of intelligent gameplay techniques with a very beatstick method.

Rune Cage is the other slap in the face. If you've ever been hit with a Rune Cage, you'll know that, having spent your remaining stamina on a roll-dodge, you will be:
-still stunned anyway,
-at half health,
-unable to Break Free,
-unable to heal yourself,
-left to die at the hands of someone who could have cast Rune Cage at 20% health and still be safe from your Nightblade's ranged Impale execute.

Your killer could have had two drops of magicka left, they could have arranged their skills so they hit harder but can't heal while finishing you off, they could have been completely unprepared for a stun and counter-attack.

If your killer's Rune Cage was dodged, they would have been punished for getting reckless like that. Instead, YOU are the one getting punished, for predicting that they would stun you or continue to hurt you.

A dodge-proof stun in your back pocket is nothing more than a lame crutch. It takes being Rune Caged once in a duel to understand: your killer won by casting a stun at the wrong time (for other classes.)

And yes, i do know how PVP damage works, extremely well. It just so happens that even IF they make it dodgeable, now its just a worse flame reach, and youre still going to get caught and meteored into a un-escapeable STUN. Properly fixing it and making it break on a certain amount of recieved damage (TO still make it useful against dots and stuff) would be much better to prevent the current break free bugs is my point here. DK has an ult thats a completely dodge proof stun with other skills, dawnbreaker is also dodge proof, there's plenty of dodge proof stuns. lol.