So... Why do us adventurers even exist?

[Xios]

Cities and even mission buildings can hire guards with so much skill, gear and training they are completely immortal. Just send them out to do the dirty work.

Have an entire DLCs and game mechanics based on stealing, assassinating and stealth. But can't even take down a guard. Guards no matter your sneaking or stealth, can see behind them and around corners. Doesn't matter your Stealth meter is ------ Not even the eye is partly open.

Am I the only one that finds this an infuriating immersion breaking part of the game? Why have us able to kill rando civilians minding their own business but that guard that hates Necro's nahh.

[PaleGingerAle]

I totally feel you :|

[Sirius]

Originally posted by PaleGingerAle🍁:

I totally feel you :|

Same.

Still, can you imagine if the guards were pushovers?

How 'immersion' breaking would it be if players wouldn't be 'afraid' of the law?
It would be impossible to enjoy in any way. There would be only guard corpses lying around. There would be even more gimped thieves loot so's people don't get ridiculously rich too quick.
There would be no order whatsoever.

It's a gameplay mechanic because players be ♥♥♥♥♥ otherwise.

[PaleGingerAle]

Yeah, it's wanting that impossible inbetween- just to be able to have your abilities work to an extent lol.

[watchdog79]

Use the proper item sets. All the sets below are either Overland drops (easily farmable solo) or craftable. Both mean they can be bought from other players. My sneaky Khajiit suddenly became an almost invisible master thief, when I got that setup, even as a non-Vampire.

A non-Vampire chartacter (ideally a Khajiit in Medium Armour, with the proper passive maxed):

Vesture of Darloc Brae (4 items only)

2 items: Adds 6-129 Magicka Recovery
3 items: Adds 6-129 Stamina Recovery
4 items: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 10%.
5 items: While crouching, you restore 31-670 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 31-670 Health every second.

Night Terror (3 items only)

2 items: Adds 12-1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10-27%.
4 items: Adds 14-1206 Maximum Health
5 items: When you take melee damage, you deal 23-2000 Poison Damage to the attacker. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

Night's Silence (all 5 items)

2 items: Adds 12-1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery
4 items: Adds 9-833 Weapon Critical
5 items: Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.

A Vampire character (ideally a Khajiit in Medium Armour, with the proper passive maxed) can swap the Night's Silence for another detection reducing set (Night Mother's Embrace), as the skill line offers a Movement Speed penalty of Sneak removal itself. You can then basically sneak right into the face of a guard, while you have a bounty on, the combo is really that good:

Vesture of Darloc Brae (4 items only)

2 items: Adds 6-129 Magicka Recovery
3 items: Adds 6-129 Stamina Recovery
4 items: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 10%.
5 items: While crouching, you restore 31-670 Magicka and Stamina and heal for 31-670 Health every second.

Night Terror (3 items only)

2 items: Adds 12-1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Reduces the radius you can be detected while sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of sneak by 10-27%.
4 items: Adds 14-1206 Maximum Health
5 items: When you take melee damage, you deal 23-2000 Poison Damage to the attacker. This effect can occur once every 1 second.

Night Mother's Embrace (all 5 items)

2 items: Adds 12-1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Adds 1-129 Weapon Damage
4 items: Adds 1-129 Stamina Recovery
5 items: Adds 1-129 Weapon Damage
5 items: Reduces the radius you can be detected while Sneaking by 2 meters. Reduces the cost of Sneak by 25%.

[Hakuso]

My stealth seems to be pretty good, I manage to hide from the guards (despite playing the character I wanted, who is more suited for a tank than a thief/assassin, rather than picking a race based on bonuses) rather well, but it makes me sad that I can't use the Blade of Woe on them to clear out some extra eyes on my target.

[Wanderer]

It was like that in Everquest 2. A level 50 monkey in the desert city market was so powerful I would joke that it could wipe out entire base game zones.

[particlewaves]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

Originally posted by PaleGingerAle🍁:

I totally feel you :|

Same.

Still, can you imagine if the guards were pushovers?

How 'immersion' breaking would it be if players wouldn't be 'afraid' of the law?
It would be impossible to enjoy in any way. There would be only guard corpses lying around. There would be even more gimped thieves loot so's people don't get ridiculously rich too quick.
There would be no order whatsoever.

It's a gameplay mechanic because players be ♥♥♥♥♥ otherwise.

Not just guards. They'd be duplicates in piles of anything killable littering the streets in every town.

Originally posted by Redfeather75:

It was like that in Everquest 2. A level 50 monkey in the desert city market was so powerful I would joke that it could wipe out entire base game zones.

Yeah, with scaling games you can kill a god-like being and then be killed by a rat in the next zone.

[Xios]

Originally posted by |x|SiriuS|x|:

Originally posted by PaleGingerAle🍁:

I totally feel you :|

Same.

Still, can you imagine if the guards were pushovers?

How 'immersion' breaking would it be if players wouldn't be 'afraid' of the law?
It would be impossible to enjoy in any way. There would be only guard corpses lying around. There would be even more gimped thieves loot so's people don't get ridiculously rich too quick.
There would be no order whatsoever.

It's a gameplay mechanic because players be ♥♥♥♥♥ otherwise.

Not really. EQ2 had killable guards. It took being well geared and well skilled to down one. It would also hurt your faction with the city. Eventually making it so you would need to betray your faction and go to the opposing side.

There was never any piles of guards littering the streets either. They gave 0 exp, had 0 loot. They were only killed or hunted for sport or to sneak a player from a hostile faction through the city.

There's a limit on how much you can sell a day anyway in eso. All they would need to do is add a faction system. Kill to many guards and you never get any peace in town and merchants wont sell to you until you pay your bounty off. Hell maybe the guards pray to he night mother because you took out one too many of their own.

There's a lot of easy ways for them to allow killable guards. From making them as strong as a dungeon boss that can call other guards for help. To doing a rework like above.

Point is having an unkillable entity everywhere is worse. Give them a lot of HP, give them high stats; but making them impossible to fight.. even if you manage to get the entire megaserver to attack ONE guard there is no chance of one going down... That's the worst.

[LazyPlanet]

Originally posted by Kuzma Volkov:

Cities and even mission buildings can hire guards with so much skill, gear and training they are completely immortal. Just send them out to do the dirty work.

Have an entire DLCs and game mechanics based on stealing, assassinating and stealth. But can't even take down a guard. Guards no matter your sneaking or stealth, can see behind them and around corners. Doesn't matter your Stealth meter is ------ Not even the eye is partly open.

Am I the only one that finds this an infuriating immersion breaking part of the game? Why have us able to kill rando civilians minding their own business but that guard that hates Necro's nahh.

Ye I hear ya , however you can only stun them for a bit or feed from them as a vampire ( also If you feed from a guard the bounty is lower than from a civilian , not sure if it's a passive that I have ) .

[Da Nut Crackah]

Only the lantern carrying NPCs can truly break your stealth. If your getting guards that can see you behind them when your stealthed its either because your not being careful or your games desynced. They are guards afterall, part of their job is to look for sneaky ppl. Also, the reason necros are hated so much is closely tied to the lore of the game.

[Hugh de Salle]

About as immersion breaking as mages pretending to be thieves with their pets flying around.

Game needs a smaller cap on guilds you can join so only dedicated thieves and assassin's will get to play them no seriously i see wardens i see mages all sneaking around its cringe-worthy.

Also if your a stamina build which you should be as a thief or assassin its very easy to escape guards you just jump over something or just out run the guards , Getting caught is the problem of the player and wrong build type imo.

[Da Nut Crackah]

Originally posted by Hugh de Salle:

About as immersion breaking as mages pretending to be thieves with their pets flying around.

Game needs a smaller cap on guilds you can join so only dedicated thieves and assassin's will get to play them no seriously i see wardens i see mages all sneaking around its cringe-worthy.

Also if your a stamina build which you should be as a thief or assassin its very easy to escape guards you just jump over something or just out run the guards , Getting caught is the problem of the player and wrong build type imo.

Why cant mages or wardens be thieves? I mean granted, the pets out during it is a bit ridiculous, but I imagine adding a penalty for having them out would be difficult to get right, so that they didnt also make certain trial mechanics impossibly difficult. But in a lot of ways it makes perfect sense a mage would make a great thief. And I have to disagree with you on the guild cap, elder scrolls games have always been about giving the player freedom to choose, even if those choices make no sense, are completely contradictory, or just plain ♥♥♥♥

[Hugh de Salle]

Originally posted by Da Nut Crackah:

Originally posted by Hugh de Salle:

About as immersion breaking as mages pretending to be thieves with their pets flying around.

Game needs a smaller cap on guilds you can join so only dedicated thieves and assassin's will get to play them no seriously i see wardens i see mages all sneaking around its cringe-worthy.

Also if your a stamina build which you should be as a thief or assassin its very easy to escape guards you just jump over something or just out run the guards , Getting caught is the problem of the player and wrong build type imo.

Why cant mages or wardens be thieves? I mean granted, the pets out during it is a bit ridiculous, but I imagine adding a penalty for having them out would be difficult to get right, so that they didnt also make certain trial mechanics impossibly difficult. But in a lot of ways it makes perfect sense a mage would make a great thief. And I have to disagree with you on the guild cap, elder scrolls games have always been about giving the player freedom to choose, even if those choices make no sense, are completely contradictory, or just plain ♥♥♥♥

Well simply because you cant be a Master Assassin , Mage , Thief , Fighter it does not make sense you wouldn't have the time to achieve all of these feats in theory maybe two at most its just unrealistic even in a fantasy game.

Granted ESO does let you be what you want if you don't want to do end game content but from an RP point of view none of it makes any sense.

I have a dedicated thief he is a master thief and assassin night-blade stam build he is also a Vampire with no remorse i pride myself on not getting caught so i'm careful im an opportunistic killer who stalks the streets of Daggerfall.
So imagine my dismay as im sneaking around a house when a mage comes crashing through the door kills the people inside loots all the containers and precedes to the next house and so on it sort of ruins the immersion and it seems these people don't care about their bounty's.

Think about it this way it would take 30-40 years of dedicated study to become a Master Mage how on earth does one then become a Master Thief and Assassin at the same-time.

Personally i would like to see the devs stop this multi classing and introduce roles for classes in dungeons like thieves are only allowed to open chests and disable traps , Mages able to read runes and collect rare books as treasure , Fighters should be able to fix and repair peoples gear etc etc.

They just need to stop the Swiss army knife player who can do everything it just spoils the game and makes everything seem generic.

[particlewaves]

Originally posted by Kuzma Volkov:

Not really. EQ2 had killable guards. It took being well geared and well skilled to down one. It would also hurt your faction with the city. Eventually making it so you would need to betray your faction and go to the opposing side.

There was never any piles of guards littering the streets either. They gave 0 exp, had 0 loot. They were only killed or hunted for sport or to sneak a player from a hostile faction through the city.

But that still means they're powerful enough to be sent out to easily handle things without having to hire random strangers.

It was justified with the Orsinium dailies as the quest giver said they have no guards and hire adventurers to handle things.

[Xios]

Originally posted by Hugh de Salle:

About as immersion breaking as mages pretending to be thieves with their pets flying around.

Game needs a smaller cap on guilds you can join so only dedicated thieves and assassin's will get to play them no seriously i see wardens i see mages all sneaking around its cringe-worthy.

Also if your a stamina build which you should be as a thief or assassin its very easy to escape guards you just jump over something or just out run the guards , Getting caught is the problem of the player and wrong build type imo.

I mean you have time magic... You have races that live longer than a typical lifespan of a human... You have doppelganger/shadow/mcguffin things that allow npcs to split in two and then gain an entire life experience of their separate self... Not entirely weird to be a master mage and thief/assassin.

Thief/assassin is a hobby to break up the holy trinity dungeon runs. To have to dedicate a new character to side missions... That's just being the ever annoying "Moomy mommy those guys are having fun in ways i don't like!" It harms nothing. Only chests vanish and when someone nabs a chest you were clearing... Honestly that duchieness is when there needs to be player bounties mechanic..

Originally posted by particlewaves:

But that still means they're powerful enough to be sent out to easily handle things without having to hire random strangers.

It was justified with the Orsinium dailies as the quest giver said they have no guards and hire adventurers to handle things.

But not Immortal, you stand no chance in hell. The fact their health bar will never go down is the problem.