Normal cars vs Race/Rally cars

[MonkeyGamesVR]

I have a serious question here.
Why do we want 'normal cars' to drive next to the already having 'race' or 'rally cars'?
I'm asking because it seem to me there are few people who wanted 'normal' cars to drive but why though? Am I just biased by thinking I drove racing or rally cars all the time so that in my mind I don't want to drive 'normal' cars anymore in simracing? Is it just me being race fan? Just asking, because I want to know what other people think about this.
Devs can answer too if they want. 🤓👍🍻

Thanks in advance all. 🙏☕

[Peekay]

The normal cars are more relatable and your rally and race cars are just as slow compared to an unrestricted version of the same car

[Twelvefield]

I like street cars to race, the more bland the better. They are much more relatable. For one thing, I don't fit in race cars in the real world, and the few I do manage to get in and out of there's that annoying dash light that comes on when you are too poor to afford the car and it wants you to get out.

I also appreciate tuning regular cars and squeezing extra speed out of them, I find that more satisfying than trying to handle a beast that has too much horsepower for the track.

Lately, I've become more interested in electric cars, which form a nice Euler diagram placement between crazy performance torque and cars that you'd see on the street.

[ONE senzero 赤]

I hope they add camry to acevo. or other common cars

[BLAXX]

Because sometimes its fun to drift around. Or drive on some Eco narrow tires. Its just different. I am a fan of both, and kunos know how to make those slower cars fun.

[Johnnie Concrete]

So you can compare the different iterations of cars against race or rally version.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

The road cars are for driving in the open world _road_ layout. Do you really think open wheelers will be allowed to mix with hatchbacks?

[barraloff1967]

all i have to say is don't drive them

[fwyflyer]

Road cars like the C8 Vette or ZL1 Camaro are basically track toys which should not be tested to their limits on the streets. That doesn't mean they aren't fun to drive on the street. In fact, they are a blast to drive on the street. But, they also REQUIRE a certain level of personal restraint so as not to collect tickets and/or endanger others.

Being able to drive them in a largely realistic simulator, on the other hand, allows us to experience them at or nearer to their limits without risking anyone else's life or limbs, much less our own pocketbooks. Moreover, for many, simulators are the only acceptable way to see what their cars can do.

[goldsbar]

Most of the "normal" cars are sports cars, sporty cars, hot hatches, and/or famous for some other reason. They're not CamCords. It's fun to drive cars on a track that you can actually buy IRL. I'm guessing the percentage of even the sim racing population that has driven on a track is low. More than a time or two really low. Driven a race car even lower. Race car in a race infinitesimal. About the only more expensive hobby would be jets and yachts.

[Twelvefield]

Originally posted by Head_on_a_Stick:

The road cars are for driving in the open world _road_ layout. Do you really think open wheelers will be allowed to mix with hatchbacks?

My favourite race (in another game) was go-karts vs semi tractors at Monaco. Very instructive.

[Michael]

Originally posted by MonkeyGamesVR:

I have a serious question here.
Why do we want 'normal cars' to drive next to the already having 'race' or 'rally cars'?
I'm asking because it seem to me there are few people who wanted 'normal' cars to drive but why though? Am I just biased by thinking I drove racing or rally cars all the time so that in my mind I don't want to drive 'normal' cars anymore in simracing? Is it just me being race fan? Just asking, because I want to know what other people think about this.
Devs can answer too if they want. 🤓👍🍻

Thanks in advance all. 🙏☕

The thing about race cars is - they've been engineered to make them easier to drive fast. It's like people race ordinary cars and then figured how to make them go faster, and then once the bodies started to pile up they hired some engineers who figured out how to improve tyres, improve brakes, improve grip and make them go around corners.

Better brakes, more grip, downforce et al.

The higher up you go in motorsport the more trivial it is. You see how F1 cars take corners, it's like a real life arcade game.

You know the only thing stopping anyone from driving an F1 car are (a) Fear - to get downforce you have to go fast, so you have to commit you can't drive one slowly around the track, and (b) the physical aspects - g forces etc, the exertion and effort of braking steering etc. You need to be an athlete to drive an F1 car IRL.

But in a computer game there are no physical aspects or fear. Any tubby middle aged guy can play a computer game, and you can pick how much force the braking and steering have. So they become next to trivial.

Road cars on the other hand suck. The brakes suck, the tyres suck, the suspension sucks.

Most games don't model the brakes to that extent because when you're playing a game you want to drive a lot of laps (IRL most standard road cars would start to fail after 2 or 3 quick laps - you can bet people at track days have either upgraded or spend a lot of time letting them cool down)

But it usually ends up more of a challenge even though a lot of the cars lack power and feel slower, there's usually enough that have more power than they need. Similar for older cars, early racing cars, anything badly engineered or that was 'designed' to look a particular way, e.g the 911.

I imagine this 3 wheel thing (as top gear tragically demonstrated) will fall into that category. Obviously a lot of the porsches are just stupid designs with the engine at the back. Sans the electronic tricks that "fix" modern cars these bad designs makes the older original ones hard to drive.

Watch Mat Armstrong's youtube channel and he's basically repairing a lot of cars where people switched off all that electronic gubbins that makes it seem like Porsche and Ferrari can engineer a road car and then they drive it into a tree - and Mat gets to repair it.

Well that's why road cars are fun - because they are crap.

Look at the Chevvy for example - a prime example of why, if you had to turn left or right to go to the moon the Americans wouldn't have got there yet. Or the BMW M4 - it's a lot more fun to drive that than the racing BMW that just goes around the track on rails.

So yeah, road cars is about having stuff that wasn't engineered to drive fast. It was designed to look good so teenagers put posters on the wall and middle-aged account executives bought one. Or it was designed to drive to tesco and take the kids to school.

It wasn't engineered at all, it had some idiot putting the engine in the back, people without any idea of car handling just putting a big engine in the front. That kind of thing.

It''s kind of the same thing why drifting can be more fun than driving smoothly and fast because pushing the car over the limit is fun. Especially in a game where all of the fear, g-forces etc don't exist. Where driving a smooth lap where you hit every apex and sit at the limit is interesting and takes a bit of skill, but pretty saccharine compared with driving IRL.

That's only made more so if you've got a racing car that takes every fast bend without lifting.

[nono782]

Originally posted by MonkeyGamesVR:

I have a serious question here.
Why do we want 'normal cars' to drive next to the already having 'race' or 'rally cars'?
I'm asking because it seem to me there are few people who wanted 'normal' cars to drive but why though? Am I just biased by thinking I drove racing or rally cars all the time so that in my mind I don't want to drive 'normal' cars anymore in simracing? Is it just me being race fan? Just asking, because I want to know what other people think about this.
Devs can answer too if they want. 🤓👍🍻

Thanks in advance all. 🙏☕

Why "normal cars" ?


Firstly, if you get rich, I think you will want to buy a fancy car, not a race car. What you call normal cars are dream cars for most of us.

And it's good to be able to have them in a game, especially when this game will allow free roaming.


Secondly, a sim is called a sim because of realist physics, not because it takes place on official tracks with official race cars.

And when you are interested in physics, these street cars tell you more about how to deal with g-forces, how to control them, than the race cars do.

Think of Assetto Corsa (not competizione) as a driving simulator more than a racing simulator if you prefer. A driving sim allows racing and cruising, it's larger, whereas a racing sim is stuck to pure racing (which is in my opinion too restrictive, less interesting)

[FerSantander]

Because driving road cars and drifting around with them on road tyres is the most fun you can have out of a car.

[fwyflyer]

Originally posted by Michael:

Originally posted by MonkeyGamesVR:

I have a serious question here.
Why do we want 'normal cars' to drive next to the already having 'race' or 'rally cars'?
I'm asking because it seem to me there are few people who wanted 'normal' cars to drive but why though? Am I just biased by thinking I drove racing or rally cars all the time so that in my mind I don't want to drive 'normal' cars anymore in simracing? Is it just me being race fan? Just asking, because I want to know what other people think about this.
Devs can answer too if they want. 🤓👍🍻

Thanks in advance all. 🙏☕

The thing about race cars is - they've been engineered to make them easier to drive fast. It's like people race ordinary cars and then figured how to make them go faster, and then once the bodies started to pile up they hired some engineers who figured out how to improve tyres, improve brakes, improve grip and make them go around corners.

Better brakes, more grip, downforce et al.

The higher up you go in motorsport the more trivial it is. You see how F1 cars take corners, it's like a real life arcade game.

You know the only thing stopping anyone from driving an F1 car are (a) Fear - to get downforce you have to go fast, so you have to commit you can't drive one slowly around the track, and (b) the physical aspects - g forces etc, the exertion and effort of braking steering etc. You need to be an athlete to drive an F1 car IRL.

But in a computer game there are no physical aspects or fear. Any tubby middle aged guy can play a computer game, and you can pick how much force the braking and steering have. So they become next to trivial.

Road cars on the other hand suck. The brakes suck, the tyres suck, the suspension sucks.[...]

...Sans the electronic tricks that "fix" modern cars these bad designs makes the older original [Porsches] hard to drive...

Watch Mat Armstrong's youtube channel and he's basically repairing a lot of cars where people switched off all that electronic gubbins that makes it seem like Porsche and Ferrari can engineer a road car and then they drive it into a tree - and Mat gets to repair it.

Well that's why road cars are fun - because they are crap.

Look at the Chevvy for example - a prime example of why, if you had to turn left or right to go to the moon the Americans wouldn't have got there yet. Or the BMW M4 - it's a lot more fun to drive that than the racing BMW that just goes around the track on rails.

So yeah, road cars is about having stuff that wasn't engineered to drive fast. It was designed to look good so teenagers put posters on the wall and middle-aged account executives bought one. Or it was designed to drive to tesco and take the kids to school.

It wasn't engineered at all, it had some idiot putting the engine in the back, people without any idea of car handling just putting a big engine in the front. That kind of thing.

It''s kind of the same thing why drifting can be more fun than driving smoothly and fast because pushing the car over the limit is fun. Especially in a game where all of the fear, g-forces etc don't exist. Where driving a smooth lap where you hit every apex and sit at the limit is interesting and takes a bit of skill, but pretty saccharine compared with driving IRL.

That's only made more so if you've got a racing car that takes every fast bend without lifting.

This misses the point in so many ways.

Many road cars are engineered for track use. Let's just take a look at the 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS. This is an excerpt from a news article that came out about the time the 6th Gen Camaro first became available for sale, "The 2016 Camaro warranty covers mechanical issues even if they occur during track use. General Motors will honor the standard warranty for any mechanical failures that happen on the track, whether it's for track day outings or drag strip runs." Does that make it a race car? No. But, is it engineered for the track? Yes. Moreover, the Camaro owner's manual specifically calls out changes in brake fluid, camber, air dams, etc, for track use. And, the Camaro is certainly not the only one. Lots of modern day sports cars are more than capable of a few laps at a time.

And, Porsche... I drove a 1977 [930] Turbo Carrera (one of the "Widow Makers") and I can confirm the need to modify techniques some. Mid corner lift off was a definite no-no. Moreover, although it required someone who knew how to handle it, it was still a cool car to drive. And, over the years since, the 911 suspension has been modernized to the point where the need for any special technique has been all but eliminated. Now, you just need a good head on your shoulders and some common sense. So, assuming you are proficient at driving all types of cars, if you ever have the opportunity to drive a modern Porsche, I highly suggest you give it a shot.

That said, opinions will always vary. I see race cars as road cars that have shed weight and had a few minor tweaks. You see race cars as Formula 1 beasts. More power to you. But, I wouldn't even attempt to drive a Formula 1 car. I am more than happy to stick to more conventional race/road cars. You, on the other hand, well, "Go get em Tiger!"

[Michael]

Originally posted by fwyflyer:

This misses the point in so many ways.

No it doesn't. It's just you don't like reality. But you're mostly agreeing whilst trying to disagree...let's go through ;-

Many road cars are engineered for track use.

No they're not.

Let's just take a look at the 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS. This is an excerpt from a news article that came out about the time the 6th Gen Camaro first became available for sale, "The 2016 Camaro warranty covers mechanical issues even if they occur during track use. General Motors will honor the standard warranty for any mechanical failures that happen on the track, whether it's for track day outings or drag strip runs."

You know there aren't many people who recite the advertising jingle for a product and point to it like it must be true. "This must wash whiter - it says so!"

And an American car too - I mean you could have picked anything else and it would have been less funny. They haven't figured out turning corners. This game has one of their cars, it's there for comic effect.

Their cars aren't even engineered for the road. Did you buy one? (promise not to laugh)

For other so-called "track cars" Watch some of the tests e.g Chris Harris has done of track day cars vs an actual race car. His conclusion is usually that you're wasting your money.

And, Porsche... I drove a 1977 [930] Turbo Carrera (one of the "Widow Makers") and I can confirm the need to modify techniques some. Mid corner lift off was a definite no-no. Moreover, although it required someone who knew how to handle it, it was still a cool car to drive.

You're confirming something that everyone has known for 50 years. Thank god you came along to test one.

The car is called widow maker ffs. You're basically explaining here why what I said was correct whilst trying to disagree with it.

And, over the years since, the 911 suspension has been modernized to the point where the need for any special technique has been all but eliminated.

Which is what I said - modern electronics has made it look like their bad idea worked to the point where they crash into trees a bit less often - but it's still a bad idea.

Now, you just need a good head on your shoulders and some common sense.

They wouldn't sell double digits if that criteria were enforced - and Mat Anderson wouldn't have a youtube channel. There are no people buying these cars that can drive - Mat is doing as many repairs for his and his teams driving now - they can't even open and close the door without breaking something and causing thousands of damage.

I see race cars as road cars that have shed weight and had a few minor tweaks.

That seems mostly because you want to delude yourself that a road car is better than it is.

They suck. The thing to realise is that actually is better for a game (and of course for using them day to day on the roads)