The wrong direction for ACE?

[a-y]

When I was younger I was happy to grind through gran turismo on the ps1. There wern't many options back then, Now I am older I have grown tired of the game aspect where you have to grind through stuff with little reward. There are so many sims I can play without having to grind why would I waste my time? Personally I would like to be able to drive any car in any spec. with any track / freeroam environment just like in ac1. This should also be possible offline. If ace's single player forces you to grind and is online only then Kunos will have basically removed a large part of what makes ac stand out from the likes of gran turismo and forza motorsport. IMO They really didn't need to change the proven formula to make ACE a success. All they need to do is improve each aspect of ac1 without any gimmicks, job done! I'm concerned ACE is going in a direction away from what made AC so great and enjoyable. I hope Kunos at least allow players to play ACE as they like, e.g. offline or online, with or without the grind.

[a-y]

Originally posted by arsenalfanrichi:

Originally posted by sebo:

this is a causal thing, i think.. i think most people into games want to work, or have a sense of progression. for example, there's a reason rpgs (ie PoE, for example are so popular) imagine just unlocking everything from the getgo -- that would be so boring.

I agree

Of course many games need progression to be enjoyable. Especially when at the heart of their game-play is a story or a hero that needs to grow. In a racing simulator if you want a career element because you like progression as in a story that's ok. However I use racing simulators because I enjoy the simulation of realistic racing. Not because I want to play out a particular story progression. I do not get bored without artificial grind because I enjoy the simulation aspect - not so much the fake game aspect. However I get that some like imposed progression. Personally I don't need it to progress in a simulator. I like to set my own progression targets.

[Tregonhawke]

Originally posted by a-y:

Originally posted by arsenalfanrichi:

I agree

Of course many games need progression to be enjoyable. Especially when at the heart of their game-play is a story or a hero that needs to grow. In a racing simulator if you want a career element because you like progression as in a story that's ok. However I use racing simulators because I enjoy the simulation of realistic racing. Not because I want to play out a particular story progression. I do not get bored without artificial grind because I enjoy the simulation aspect - not so much the fake game aspect. However I get that some like imposed progression. Personally I don't need it to progress in a simulator. I like to set my own progression targets.

I agree, grind should be for something like cosmetics, a badge of honour. I'd rather grind to be faster in a car/class not to get through something because you must to get to the good stuff.

[a-y]

Originally posted by arsenalfanrichi:

While I see what you're saying with the move away from AC1. AC1 still exists and is still very popular. In the same way Skyrim and Oblivion still exist as modding platforms, this game satiates a hunger that myself and probably others like me, have had for a long time, which is leaning more heavily into the SegaGT/Gran Turismo style immersion, and away from the lite versions of it we've been teased with on PC for so long. There's no rule that says you have to stop playing AC or ACC just because EVO exists.

Sure, I could buy a Playstation, but paying £500 for a console to play a single game, when a more powerful platform such as PC already exists and has nothing akin to it is crazy.

That's all very well and I am not saying the game cannot have the progression element you may crave. However ACE in terms of handling will hopefully be a huge improvement over AC1 and ACC. I don't see why a chunk of Kunos supporters who have given them their Support over the years, via large sums of money, should have to miss out on this new title. I know that Kunos likes to thank its long time supporters. A good way to thank them would be to create a game that isn't too much of a new direction so as to alienate a large number of people who helped them reach the success they have attained. I might mention PCars3 for example which didn't live up to the longtime supporters of Slightly Mad Studios expectations. Yes ACE still has sim physics unlike PCars3 but it is non the less going in a very different direction from what many committed supporters might have been expecting. I'm happy for Kunos to try and attract the gamer crowd by adding in game elements so long as they respect their long standing supporters as well by not taking out the aspects of the sim they loved. Such as the ability to play in sandbox mode and offline.

[grizta30]

For me it depends on how they implement it, a grind in single player/career thats one thing but for me im only interested in online racing, if i have to grind or pay for in game currency to have a competative car to race others online then its not for me, thats not really why i got into realistic sim racing.
I've said it on here before but i fear they are trying to please everybody which will undoubtedly please nobody.
Time will tell i suppose.

[Sassanid]

As long as all the progression and upgrades stuff is all offline and for a single player campaign where we really feel like we start off as a rookie in a banger and get to work our way up, that could be a lot of fun once the AI is sorted out.

But for online play absolutely not. The whole point of sim racing is that we do it on an even playing field, my car has no advantage over your car, let our skill do the talking.

[JPRacer77Qc]

I don't want to grind either. The game come with x number of cars; I want to start racing with the cars I want, not play xx hours with cars I don't care about. For people that want progression Kunos can implement a carrer mode.

[arsenalfanrichi]

Originally posted by a-y:

Originally posted by arsenalfanrichi:

While I see what you're saying with the move away from AC1. AC1 still exists and is still very popular. In the same way Skyrim and Oblivion still exist as modding platforms, this game satiates a hunger that myself and probably others like me, have had for a long time, which is leaning more heavily into the SegaGT/Gran Turismo style immersion, and away from the lite versions of it we've been teased with on PC for so long. There's no rule that says you have to stop playing AC or ACC just because EVO exists.

Sure, I could buy a Playstation, but paying £500 for a console to play a single game, when a more powerful platform such as PC already exists and has nothing akin to it is crazy.

That's all very well and I am not saying the game cannot have the progression element you may crave. However ACE in terms of handling will hopefully be a huge improvement over AC1 and ACC. I don't see why a chunk of Kunos supporters who have given them their Support over the years, via large sums of money, should have to miss out on this new title. I know that Kunos likes to thank its long time supporters. A good way to thank them would be to create a game that isn't too much of a new direction so as to alienate a large number of people who helped them reach the success they have attained. I might mention PCars3 for example which didn't live up to the longtime supporters of Slightly Mad Studios expectations. Yes ACE still has sim physics unlike PCars3 but it is non the less going in a very different direction from what many committed supporters might have been expecting. I'm happy for Kunos to try and attract the gamer crowd by adding in game elements so long as they respect their long standing supporters as well by not taking out the aspects of the sim they loved. Such as the ability to play in sandbox mode and offline.

I think they will probably keep single player modes completely accessible for all available content. They might just restrict career mode and perhaps multiplayer content behind licenses and virtual dollars, which I think would be fair to maintain a degree of competency behind online multiplayer and for career-esque progression. Time will tell of course. I agree with pretty much everything you've said.

[arsenalfanrichi]

Originally posted by Sassanid:

As long as all the progression and upgrades stuff is all offline and for a single player campaign where we really feel like we start off as a rookie in a banger and get to work our way up, that could be a lot of fun once the AI is sorted out.

But for online play absolutely not. The whole point of sim racing is that we do it on an even playing field, my car has no advantage over your car, let our skill do the talking.

I don't think customization online will be anything more than cosmetics. Maybe they could do Class style upgraded racing, and perhaps that could work, but of course that would then mean that people would not be disadvantaged for not having the time to grind eternally. I'm sure they're well aware that a vast amount of sim racers are people with full time commitments and would not want to punish them thusly.

[Josh]

I agree with the OP, I say grab Automobilista 2 if you haven't already, it's a sim racer's wet dream and when career mode is added maybe the end of this year I don't think I'll touch another racing game for a while. Well maybe Moto GP if they add bike retrieval back in the game.

[sebo]

Originally posted by Josh:

I agree with the OP, I say grab Automobilista 2 if you haven't already, it's a sim racer's wet dream and when career mode is added maybe the end of this year I don't think I'll touch another racing game for a while. Well maybe Moto GP if they add bike retrieval back in the game.

maybe try buying and playing the game first..

[Josh]

Originally posted by sebo:

Originally posted by Josh:

I agree with the OP, I say grab Automobilista 2 if you haven't already, it's a sim racer's wet dream and when career mode is added maybe the end of this year I don't think I'll touch another racing game for a while. Well maybe Moto GP if they add bike retrieval back in the game.

maybe try buying and playing the game first..

Maybe in 2 years when ACE matures a bit more but for now I'll stick with AMS2, it's a wonderful gem of a game, nothing comes close to it as of now. Especially in VR, weather, AI and damage.

[Mattmattmatt]

They need some kind of progression system inplace. Gran Turismo system would be fine with allot more variables and changes as you progress.

*seasonal championships with differing tracks, laps, weather, fuel, weight each year for each car tier.
*Rival NPC's, teams and team mates.
*Car mechanical failures, car component fragility/endurance.
*Challenging scenarios taking drivers out of the comfort zone (like WRCG extreme challenges).

This is what allowed me to put so much time into the recent F1 and WRC games. Im hopihg Kunos can offer something like this.

[a-y]

Originally posted by Mattmattmatt:

They need some kind of progression system inplace. Gran Turismo system would be fine with allot more variables and changes as you progress.

*seasonal championships with differing tracks, laps, weather, fuel, weight each year for each car tier.
*Rival NPC's, teams and team mates.
*Car mechanical failures, car component fragility/endurance.
*Challenging scenarios taking drivers out of the comfort zone (like WRCG extreme challenges).

This is what allowed me to put so much time into the recent F1 and WRC games. Im hopihg Kunos can offer something like this.

Progression is important however, it doesn't need to be artificially enforced in a way that locks access to content. Personally the sims I have put hundreds of hours in to are the sims without this kind of forced progression. I prefer to set my own goals. The elements of game I play the least are the gamey elements such as career modes etc. I don't want to play at cars - I want a simulation. Progress for me is best kept to things like leader-boards, lap times and badges or accolades, Locking content I've already paid for in order to fake progression is perhaps more for kids (who have more time than sense) or for those that lack creativity.

[Michael]

Originally posted by a-y:

When I was younger I was happy to grind through gran turismo on the ps1.

I can't see it as much of a grind.

I kind of think the same really - when these kind of things were in console games in the past it was really difficult to control a car using a controller and looking at a flat screen, especially if you could drive IRL.

Even something like drive along and brake so you stop in a square was tricky.

In a modern game when some of us have VR and wheel and pedals driving is easy. The only difficulty they can set, perhaps, is lap time.

But it is what it is. By the looks of it you have to do a handful of corners in different cars with different weather conditions and then maybe a full lap of a track in car. That's hardly "grinding" is it?

Grinding would be if you needed to get a time that was in the top 1% of lap times and maybe you spend 5 hours and hundreds of attempts. From what I saw even Nelson Piquet Jr would get 1 star on his first attempt.

If driving a car is a chore then you picked the wrong game for sure.

And maybe you're too old but the game is going to be played by lots of different people. Maybe some of them it's their first driving game, they've never driven before or they don't have VR and fancy pants DD wheels etc. Maybe, for them, it'll be useful to help them control the cars etc.

For the rest of us its going to be a doddle, not a grind.

[luketaro]

This is how it works currently with 0.1.4 beta release:

- you can buy, rent or drive a car only if you have the required licence (except for special events).
- you can take take every license just by getting bronze times, which are very easy and can be achieved first try (silver and gold are quite harder).
- for every valid lap you do you get money (even in practice) and experience. You get money also when you level up.
-your level currently doesn't do anything.
- with money you earn you can buy cars or rent them.
- if you buy a car you can customize it. Customization do influence performance (for now certain cars can be made either manual or automatic. It's confirmed that with full customization release there will be much more stuff to play with). Customizations currently are completely free.
- you can rent any car you want of you have the required licence for a very cheap price. The most expensive (Merc GT2) rent amounts to 4500 credits. If I grasped correctly, each valid lap in practice gives you 1000 credits. Many reported that for an evening spent mastering the licences they earned about 800k. To buy every car you'd need about 3 millions. To buy the most expensive car you need 590k.
- it's quite easy to get the money to buy any car you desire, but if you want to own them all, then you'll have to grind a bit. You can as well rush the licences and then only rent cars to have the same AC1 experience without ever buying a single car.
- for multiplayer, i guess servers will be rented cars only, so that customization doesn't matter.
- you can earn money, buy cars and save customizations only if you are online, but if you are offline you keep everything you have bought.