my concerns on the cheat death system.

[fixius01]

Problems with the cheat death system
The cheat death system has a few problems that being: the implications of it and the inferiority of it to other methods.
Let’s start with the inferiority of it to other methods problem of it:
That methods like safe scumming and backing up safes, are simply superior methods by the fact that there is no in-game penalty of using them, over the cheat death system. Making it practically useless, however the argument for it could be that its a legit vanilla method made by the developers. To that I say is this, would you rather die in-game from let’s say a wolf, okay you are now dead best case is that you continue your safe with a permanent debuff and had to spend time just to regain your previous progress now with a debuff. Worst case is that you died trying getting your stuff back and now have to deal with two permanent debuffs at best, and it would be really annoying.
Another thing would be really annoying if you died due to a bug or a simple mistake like not seeing or hear a wolf in time. And have to deal with at best a debuff for the rest of your run, which make you not want to play the game, which I would say is worse than dying, another thing is that you can make your safe totally unrecoverable by how long you play (which is counterintuitive) and your play-style as if you loot to much of your world you can’t hope to survive long enough to get your stuff back or you have to make small stashes of stuff EVERYWHERE just on the chance of death, does that sound fun to you.
And this feature doesn’t add anything new to the equation as things like having back-up safes having the similar level of frustration with the difference being using the back-up safes losing more progress over cheat death systems permanent debuff at the best of times.
So, the cheat death system is just the worst tool in the players arsenal that isn’t 99 percent reliable, as its the most convenient and annoying.
And lastly a modder can just make a system like in story-mode or similar work in survival.
the implications of it:
this feature will cause allot of friction in the community by, going against one of its foundations by being a permadeath game, players that want a save system will defend it beyond reason and this will attract people who don’t like permadeath and cause more friction in the community.
And has I said before where you just respawn with nothing and its problems, the developers could make it so that you have starting gear but that make it so that if you use the cheat death system you have a material advantage early-game by three lives which doesn´t make sense in regular interloper but makes like outer NOGOA much easier even if the developers make it so that you spawn in random regions.
My solution*
My way of fixing it is to make on hold until it can be properly implemented or if its still implemented by part five, is to make in unlockable with misery mode by completing all the challenges so that the community can see it as an extra feature rather than a feature and it will give more of a purpose for the challenges and some would say why gatekeep misery mode? If a new player can’t complete the challenges than how are they suppose to play possibly harder than NOGOA, misery mode? Or make it available in beta to play test it.
So, hinterland has to make a choice ether make it a feature like story-mode safe system or similar to other non-permadeath games, or remove it completely or have the community erode and people using it for ammunition instead of civil discussion.

[Goof]

i get it but at the same time if someone save scums, then thats on them. having the option i dont think is all that terrible of an idea, especially if there are debuffs that come with it.

there's already some friction between interloper players and easier difficulties, so i dont think this mechanic will create any more issues than there already was imo

[Bobywan]

I savescum ! No shame, and will continue to do so because I would not enjoy the game otherwise.
Depending on the new permanent affliction, I may keep it or use my older saves... but I started save scumming on my voyager run when I first got frostbite, which I kept until the 500 days mark because I felt tricked by the game, was warm but with wet gloves, I didn't know better at the time and the game doesn't really explain it.

[Anarch]

In regards to safe scumming, the game should save on occasions like detection by a wolf, the start of a snowstorm, a need reaching 0, a condition losing 20%, etc.

Backups: I don't see a solution here that wouldn't necessarily be circumvented anyway or that might break things.

"if you use the cheat death system you have a material advantage early-game by three lives"

I agree, after the first 30–50 days, when you get the bow, cooking to Level 5, and good clothing, the challenge is basically over, even on nogoa-type runs. A death system could make things extremely easy.

What "challenges" are you talking about, Deathwalker, etc.? I never played most of them because I found them boring. I don't want to do them to unlock standard content.

[Goof]

Originally posted by Anarch:

In regards to safe scumming, the game should save on occasions like detection by a wolf, the start of a snowstorm, a need reaching 0, a condition losing 20%, etc.

Backups: I don't see a solution here that wouldn't necessarily be circumvented anyway or that might break things.

"if you use the cheat death system you have a material advantage early-game by three lives"

I agree, after the first 30–50 days, when you get the bow, cooking to Level 5, and good clothing, the challenge is basically over, even on nogoa-type runs. A death system could make things extremely easy.

What "challenges" are you talking about, Deathwalker, etc.? I never played most of them because I found them boring. I don't want to do them to unlock standard content.

i could see that but if you had the game auto save on wolf detection in stalker, the game would probably freeze with how many wolves there are in that difficulty

[fixius01]

i just dont think that this feature doesn´t add much.

[Pestilence]

I have never save scummed in TLD and never will. I want to be able to choose to never have cheat death available to me at the beginning of a new run, so I'll never be tempted. That said, I will also definitely be trying new runs where I intentionally blow all of my cheat death opportunities immediately at the start of a new run by committing suicide to make interloper more difficult and see what that's like.

[rush_247]

Originally posted by fixius01:

i just dont think that this feature doesn´t add much.

I kinda agree but we'll have to see what the new permanent afflictions that come with it are.

[Bobywan]

Originally posted by Pestilence:

I have never save scummed in TLD and never will. I want to be able to choose to never have cheat death available to me at the beginning of a new run, so I'll never be tempted. That said, I will also definitely be trying new runs where I intentionally blow all of my cheat death opportunities immediately at the start of a new run by committing suicide to make interloper more difficult and see what that's like.

You'll have a misery mode, it's supposed to be even worse than that, the devs said you're supposed to only last a dozen days in this mode.

[Hinterland_Studio]

Originally posted by fixius01:

i just dont think that this feature doesn´t add much.

Maybe you should wait to play with it first, and then draw some conclusions?

[Pestilence]

Originally posted by Bobywan:

You'll have a misery mode, it's supposed to be even worse than that, the devs said you're supposed to only last a dozen days in this mode.

I definitely intend to try both.

[fangorn231]

Once you walk off a cliff because you forgot auto-walk was on or your key got stuck, you'll want the cheat death system. That happened to me the first time I got the technical backpack. No I'm not bitter about it, I'm the perfect flavor about it.

[Pestilence]

Originally posted by fangorn231:

Once you walk off a cliff because you forgot auto-walk was on or your key got stuck, you'll want the cheat death system. That happened to me the first time I got the technical backpack. No I'm not bitter about it, I'm the perfect flavor about it.

I've never used auto walk specifically because I don't want to risk dying that way. Personally, I consider being inattentive and walking off a cliff a perfect justification for permadeath in a survival game.

[fangorn231]

Originally posted by Pestilence:

Originally posted by fangorn231:

Once you walk off a cliff because you forgot auto-walk was on or your key got stuck, you'll want the cheat death system. That happened to me the first time I got the technical backpack. No I'm not bitter about it, I'm the perfect flavor about it.

I've never used auto walk specifically because I don't want to risk dying that way. Personally, I consider being inattentive and walking off a cliff a perfect justification for permadeath in a survival game.

inattentive does not equate button stuck, thanks for playing.

[Pestilence]

Originally posted by fangorn231:

Originally posted by Pestilence:

I've never used auto walk specifically because I don't want to risk dying that way. Personally, I consider being inattentive and walking off a cliff a perfect justification for permadeath in a survival game.

inattentive does not equate button stuck, thanks for playing.

It does equate to forgot it was on though, so you're welcome. As for stuck buttons, maybe clean your keyboard. That or don't use auto walk in a permadeath game in the first place...

[jayess65]

Originally posted by fangorn231:

Once you walk off a cliff because you forgot auto-walk was on or your key got stuck, you'll want the cheat death system.

Incorrect. I ruined a multiple hundred day Stalker run by autowalking off a cliff. My own dumb fault. Live and learn (or die and learn as the case may be). And I still say that in the myriad of questionable design choices we've enjoyed since the DLC, the cheat-death system is right up there with glimmer fog.