Foraging for "Tinder Plugs" is redundant

[ent|ty]

I rarely need tinder plugs, I create mine by harvesting the newspaper I find lying about, and have more than enough.

However, in a pinch, I"ve had to forage for tinder plugs, but I should never have to do that SPECIFICALLY, and I also believe it is a huge waste of time and calories and danger of freezing, for what pretty much amounts to a bit of kinding or bark strips.

I believe it is a redundant task, because as one would forage for wood in real life, one would also be harvesting twigs, bark and various other tinder materials alongside.

Tinder bundles should either be changed to 'raw tinder materials' that appear perhaps as a bonus or result of foraging for wood in general, and can be crafted into actual bundles using 'harvest of tinder materials", or for simplification's sake.. just be a bonus to foraging wood as it is.

eg. Forage for Fir Wood, with axe for 20 mins yields 1 log, but bonus tinder bundle.

Tinder bundles can even be made with the bark on the same log you are foraging.

OR

Make tinder bundle foraging much less of a time investment.

----------------

In the end, noone in their right mind literally goes out to forage for 'soft wood' specifically unless they want to carve a Santa Claus figure...

In an emergency situation, you'd forage for ALL and ANY wood available, as well as be collecting tinder bundles as you go.

This is where redundancy in the game can be reduced, at the risk of exposing the lack of content in the game... but sorry, thats the way it is.

We want our actions to make sense in the game, and freezing to death foraging for tinder bundles specifically to the exclusion of ignoring wood logs in an action is simply not believable.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Eleazaros]

Foraging for wood generally is not foraging via tree chunks nor live bark nor ...

You look for branches and twigs, what pices of wood you may find - not getting consistent sourcing.

When hunting for specific wood - such as fir to fix a hatchet - you would look for a specific grade of wood. Hardwood doesn't light as readily as softwood so if you need to start fires, you generally want some softwood to get the fire going then toss hardwood on it.

Correct on the assumption about shaving off wood to make a plug but incorrect on types of wood. If you got a chunk of wood that would burn a long time but will also take a great deal of time to get lit - that's not what you'll use to start a fire.

In other words, if they do adjust it, you'd liable to get that "starting fire" running for vastly longer with you having to toss on more and more kindling to try and get a log based fire going simply because you could not select to pick a grade of wood that will ignite faster.

The system works albeit I think if kindling is going in, and the fire is getting going, you should be able to add more kindling vs simply burn another match repeatedly trying to get the fire going.

That extends the life on matches but makes you use up a boatload more plugs and such - meaning you will spend a lot of time getting kindling up (but could convert any wood to that substance).

[ZombieHunter]

We should get to forage by finding and gathering the wood ourselves. The amount of time required and energy required to forage for measly amounts of wood is a bit over the top.

[TattooedMac™]

I think this is a really good example of the whole "is it worth my time and effort" system in the game. This is what it is all about.
Decisions, little gain with a lot of effort, or hold out until you are 100% and go foraging then. I don't think its redundant, as this is the intention of the game and the decisions you make.

[ent|ty]

Originally posted by TattooedMac:

I think this is a really good example of the whole "is it worth my time and effort" system in the game. This is what it is all about.
Decisions, little gain with a lot of effort, or hold out until you are 100% and go foraging then. I don't think its redundant, as this is the intention of the game and the decisions you make.

Its redundant because obtaining tinder is a direct result and bonus of collecting wood in the first place.

I have never gone out in the woods wasting time and energy looking for something specific, when there is a mix that exists between soft wood, hard wood, bark, leaves, twigs as is.

This is an example of creating content for content's sake.

[Eleazaros]

Originally posted by ent|ty:

Originally posted by TattooedMac:

I think this is a really good example of the whole "is it worth my time and effort" system in the game. This is what it is all about.
Decisions, little gain with a lot of effort, or hold out until you are 100% and go foraging then. I don't think its redundant, as this is the intention of the game and the decisions you make.

Its redundant because obtaining tinder is a direct result and bonus of collecting wood in the first place.

I have never gone out in the woods wasting time and energy looking for something specific, when there is a mix that exists between soft wood, hard wood, bark, leaves, twigs as is.

This is an example of creating content for content's sake.

You've never had to replace the handle of a knife or hatchet with raw wood either - but in this game you do need to do these things and "wood is wood" doesn't work for such scavaging - you'll end up with a handle that will break too fast or what not.

[ent|ty]

Originally posted by Eleazaros:

Originally posted by ent|ty:

Its redundant because obtaining tinder is a direct result and bonus of collecting wood in the first place.

I have never gone out in the woods wasting time and energy looking for something specific, when there is a mix that exists between soft wood, hard wood, bark, leaves, twigs as is.

This is an example of creating content for content's sake.

You've never had to replace the handle of a knife or hatchet with raw wood either - but in this game you do need to do these things and "wood is wood" doesn't work for such scavaging - you'll end up with a handle that will break too fast or what not.

Unless someone is really, really bad at operating an axe or knife, the last part that would ever require repair is the handle...
Also, how does one repair a manufactured axe or knife-blade with scrap metal?

Since everything is pretty much arbitrary, and doesn't make much sense, you can see why this extends to pretty much else in the game.

Maybe i've joined this conversation and feedback about the game a bit too early and give it a rest for awhile...

[Eleazaros]

Originally posted by ent|ty:

Originally posted by Eleazaros:

You've never had to replace the handle of a knife or hatchet with raw wood either - but in this game you do need to do these things and "wood is wood" doesn't work for such scavaging - you'll end up with a handle that will break too fast or what not.

Unless someone is really, really bad at operating an axe or knife, the last part that would ever require repair is the handle...
Also, how does one repair a manufactured axe or knife-blade with scrap metal?

Since everything is pretty much arbitrary, and doesn't make much sense, you can see why this extends to pretty much else in the game.

Maybe i've joined this conversation and feedback about the game a bit too early and give it a rest for awhile...

I'm not sure on the scrap metal beyond using it as a sharpening source - a rock would work for that. Wedge to tighten the head? Wood works for a hatchet like that. Knife? No idea beyond sharpening and it wouldn't use up the metal bit fast.

As far as the handle goes, those are replaced far more frequently than any other part.

I've replaced a hatchet handle twice in 2 weeks, the axe handle once in that time. I was clearing a 5 acre lot using a metal whip weed-eater + chainsaw as the primary tools -- had to replace the both the whip head (twice) and the chain towards the end too.

Lots and lots of scrub and trees.

It's why if you visit any hardware store you'll find hammer, hatchet and axe handles. They wear out as you use them. Mabye... ever 4 cords of wood worth? Something like that if splitting wood and the like.

[ent|ty]

Originally posted by Eleazaros:

Originally posted by ent|ty:

Unless someone is really, really bad at operating an axe or knife, the last part that would ever require repair is the handle...
Also, how does one repair a manufactured axe or knife-blade with scrap metal?

Since everything is pretty much arbitrary, and doesn't make much sense, you can see why this extends to pretty much else in the game.

Maybe i've joined this conversation and feedback about the game a bit too early and give it a rest for awhile...

I'm not sure on the scrap metal beyond using it as a sharpening source - a rock would work for that. Wedge to tighten the head? Wood works for a hatchet like that. Knife? No idea beyond sharpening and it wouldn't use up the metal bit fast.

As far as the handle goes, those are replaced far more frequently than any other part.

I've replaced a hatchet handle twice in 2 weeks, the axe handle once in that time. I was clearing a 5 acre lot using a metal whip weed-eater + chainsaw as the primary tools -- had to replace the both the whip head (twice) and the chain towards the end too.

Lots and lots of scrub and trees.

It's why if you visit any hardware store you'll find hammer, hatchet and axe handles. They wear out as you use them. Mabye... ever 4 cords of wood worth? Something like that if splitting wood and the like.

Ummm. no. LOL
Maybe if you're Mr. Unco-ordinated and keep hitting the handle on logs and miss your strike.... An axe handle breaks because of poor usage or poor materials..

Come on man.. I've had axes for years, what are you talking about now :: pulls hair out because of this strange alternate universe TLD exists in::

We're kind of getting off track though, lol.

[Eleazaros]

Originally posted by ent|ty:

Originally posted by Eleazaros:

I'm not sure on the scrap metal beyond using it as a sharpening source - a rock would work for that. Wedge to tighten the head? Wood works for a hatchet like that. Knife? No idea beyond sharpening and it wouldn't use up the metal bit fast.

As far as the handle goes, those are replaced far more frequently than any other part.

I've replaced a hatchet handle twice in 2 weeks, the axe handle once in that time. I was clearing a 5 acre lot using a metal whip weed-eater + chainsaw as the primary tools -- had to replace the both the whip head (twice) and the chain towards the end too.

Lots and lots of scrub and trees.

It's why if you visit any hardware store you'll find hammer, hatchet and axe handles. They wear out as you use them. Mabye... ever 4 cords of wood worth? Something like that if splitting wood and the like.

Ummm. no. LOL
Maybe if you're Mr. Unco-ordinated and keep hitting the handle on logs and miss your strike.... An axe handle breaks because of poor usage or poor materials..

Come on man.. I've had axes for years, what are you talking about now :: pulls hair out because of this strange alternate universe TLD exists in::

No. Not really. I did about 14 cords of wood clearing those 5 acres in 2 weeks alone.

I used a come-along to tow the tree parts to the house, after clipping the branches off, often with the hatchet - it's not smart to clip braches on the underside of a tree with a chainsaw. The tree twists a bit and drops to the ground quickly as the brach breakes.

Getting all those friggn berrybushes and scrub trees out... I mostly used that metal-whip weedeater on (why I busted the strands so much. Some of those things had over 1.5" bases on them but it was cheaper/easier to do it that way than try and wade through the thorns to hand-chop them out)

[ent|ty]

Originally posted by Eleazaros:

Originally posted by ent|ty:

Ummm. no. LOL
Maybe if you're Mr. Unco-ordinated and keep hitting the handle on logs and miss your strike.... An axe handle breaks because of poor usage or poor materials..

Come on man.. I've had axes for years, what are you talking about now :: pulls hair out because of this strange alternate universe TLD exists in::

No. Not really. I did about 14 cords of wood clearing those 5 acres in 2 weeks alone.

I used a come-along to tow the tree parts to the house, after clipping the branches off, often with the hatchet - it's not smart to clip braches on the underside of a tree with a chainsaw. The tree twists a bit and drops to the ground quickly as the brach breakes.

Getting all those friggn berrybushes and scrub trees out... I mostly used that metal-whip weedeater on (why I busted the strands so much. Some of those things had over 1.5" bases on them but it was cheaper/easier to do it that way than try and wade through the thorns to hand-chop them out)

Ok, let's make sense of this discussion..

You are building the case that we need specific goals when we forage, to find appropriate wood to fix an axe handle?

Wouldn't my argument still remain the same, that whether you had a goal or not to get tinder/soft/hard wood, that you would come across them anyway?

I'm just trying to eliminate tedium out of the game.. but maybe I'm missing the point that the tedium added is to cover for lack of things to do in sandbox mode.

[Eleazaros]

@ent|ty

Well... I hate the long explanation but I do feel it's needed here so we are understanding each other - I think I'm getting your point but you aren't seeing mine so well -- I'll take the blame on that one. I'm not always great at explaining myself.

If you're foraging for tinder to start a fire, a chunk of wood won't be picked up, you'll look for twigs and grasses unless you plan on toating that log around as you hunt for fairly dry tinder materials in the snow.

If you are foraging for wood to keep a fire going you'll want larger logs of wood, finding twigs and grass is good if you plan on restarting fires but not so hot just to toss on a fire to go "poof" in a second, doing nothing more than a quick flare-up.

From there we go with more specifics so it does work the way they have it.

Tinder to start a fire - either find it or take the time to make it from foraged wood - either way, it will be time to get that tinder ready -AND- a wet log can be tossed on a roaring fire and burn but not to get it started.

softwoods - start burning faster and easier but don't burn as long - hell of a waste running around picking up 45min-1.25min logs if you could pick up 1.75min-2.5hr logs.

hardwoods - used to repair items such as the axe, burn 2 times longer... doesn't start up so well as a fire (10% harder to get this to burn than softwoods).

So if I'm trying to start a fire, I generally want some tinder (plug) and 1 decent softwood starter log. After that I want hardwood being as I can get over 2 hours burn time from a single log.

That means I don't necessarily want "whatever I can find" but specifically hunting for a grade of burnables to use - tinder, starting vs long burning.

Your "whatever we can find" would actually harm you if you are trying to build a longer burning fire (such as a pot belly stove in a broken house or fishing hut - to burn for 8+ hours as you camp there due to a snow storm or the like).

[ent|ty]

I understand what you're saying, but I just don't buy it, sorry.

Never, never in my entire existence have I foraged for wood looking for just one kind... other than "Only collect fallen timber from crown land", and throwing it in the back of the pickup.

It is a game mechanic in TLD, and if they want to keep it, all power to them.
But I don't think it makes any sense other than a grade-school explanation for something that is just silly.

[Eleazaros]

True - except you probably have looked for "a kind" - dry vs damp/wet where damp/wet is more acceptable when the fire is going strong. Just not a specific grade.

I do like the ability to pick "starting wood" vs "burning wood" - maybe change the names of it but "hardwood" is needed for fixing hatchest - you really don't want soft woods for a handle so... Tough one to balance.

Random might be more realistic but also would mean less reliability in what you get to burn and work with.

[ent|ty]

Originally posted by Eleazaros:

True - except you probably have looked for "a kind" - dry vs damp/wet where damp/wet is more acceptable when the fire is going strong. Just not a specific grade.

I do like the ability to pick "starting wood" vs "burning wood" - maybe change the names of it but "hardwood" is needed for fixing hatchest - you really don't want soft woods for a handle so... Tough one to balance.

Random might be more realistic but also would mean less reliability in what you get to burn and work with.

It's just that if you are going to suffer the same freezing elements, calorie burn, etc.. you simply wouldn't do this in RL.. especially in a survival situation.. you'd go out and grab all wood, and stuffing your pocket with tinder or w/e.

We'll have to see I guess...

[gamertaboo]

Wooden handles on Axes and Hatchets are many times the first part to go. If you use these tools often you would encounter this more often. If you just have an Axe or Hatchet sitting in your garage only being used a couple times every year, you most likely will never have a problem, however if and when you ever do (and they have wooden handles of course) you would more than likely have either the head fly off the handle, or the handle break.

From regular use, as in not doing anything wrong.

I've had problems with both hatchets and axes, with wooden handles, as well as shovels, post hole digger, etc, etc. All wooden handles, but in no way cheap. Many times you can just use a metal shim pounded back in to where the head sits on the handle, and you're good to go. (Scrap metal anyone?) As for the head of the axe, it usually lasts years only needing sharpened...

Also, I have gone camping A LOT. You do in fact, collect different types of wood together. As in bigger logs, you will go out and get arm fulls at a time, same goes for twigs. I do agree however, that if you were to walk past some "old man's beard" type moss, or find a really good source of tinder, you would most likely stop along the way to grab it. If you're alone though, you might just carry the wood you have in your hands back to camp, and then seperately go back for the tinder. (depending on how far away it is)

Either way, in my opinion this is all just an obvious game mechanic, and it works just fine as that. You don't even need to go outside to get tinder if you're in a cabin/shelter.

I believe in the earlier versions of the game, that you would just click "Forage" and you would get both Tinder and Wood, but it was a %chance on how many of each you would get depending on the hours you spent. (IIRC? it's been a while so I could be wrong) My point being that I consider the newer method to be better.

The best suggestion I could give to anyone would be in the beggining, make sure to harvest EVERY single newspaper, newspaper roll, into tinder bundles. You get two per newspaper, and 4 per roll, and everytime I do this I end up with enough tinder to last weeks. I understand this might not help in your current playthrough, but next time it will. I even have to store tinder because I end up getting so many that it takes up too much carry weight.