Hummingbird Metabolism

[[FLK] Lalabird <3]

Hello, new player here, couldn't find anything new about this and didn't want to necro. Is it just me, or does the player character have the metabolism of a hummingbird? I understand that time is compressed for sake of gameplay making sense, but it seems kind of odd that someone would have to drink 3 cans of soda, eat a bag of beef jerky, a can of beans, and a can of dog-food to not starve over the course of waiting out a blizzard in an ice fishing hut.

It feels as if the need for water is downplayed, and yet the need for food is overtuned. It is very cold out, which does make one burn more calories, and physical exertion tears through even more.

I ramble and let this run long, I feel that the cold mechanic is just fine for gating extended exploration, and that the protagonist hungers too quickly, and feel it would be fair if this adjustment were made.

[Engita]

I honestly agree, feels a little silly. It is a very enjoyable and relaxing game though, I don't see any fustration that comes with the calorie system where it is at now, I guess it just gives me more of a reason to go looking for food and exploring other areas. ^-^

[troylights]

In real life, lack of food is not the primary concern in a survival situation. A normal sized adult has a substantial amount of body fat that can be burned for fuel. Let's say your player character is a 180 lbs. male with 25% body fat. That's about 45 lbs. of body fat. There's around 3500 kcal of energy in a pound of body fat. 45 x 3500 = 157,500 kcal of stored energy, enough to fast on water alone for a couple of months, if absolutely necessary.

The idea that one has to stave off hunger is a fallacy. Our evolutionary design is well suited to periodic fasting. Modern humans gorging on refined carbohydrate ladden junk food, which is designed to increase appetite, suffer the pangs of hunger more strongly. Nevertheless, after several days of discomfort and adjustment, it is entirely possible to enter a normal fasting metabolic state.

[Grace1957]

It's a game.

[Huskimo (Formerly Lrrr)]

Originally posted by troylights:

In real life, lack of food is not the primary concern in a survival situation. A normal sized adult has a substantial amount of body fat that can be burned for fuel. Let's say your player character is a 180 lbs. male with 25% body fat. That's about 45 lbs. of body fat. There's around 3500 kcal of energy in a pound of body fat. 45 x 3500 = 157,500 kcal of stored energy, enough to fast on water alone for a couple of months, if absolutely necessary.

The idea that one has to stave off hunger is a fallacy. Our evolutionary design is well suited to periodic fasting. Modern humans gorging on refined carbohydrate ladden junk food, which is designed to increase appetite, suffer the pangs of hunger more strongly. Nevertheless, after several days of discomfort and adjustment, it is entirely possible to enter a normal fasting metabolic state.

Notice how dehyration has a much greater effect on condition than starvation, but even still, if you were starving, you probably wouldn't say you were 100%

[Huskimo (Formerly Lrrr)]

Meh, I also have a high metabolism, and I honestly eat more calories in real life than in this game (I excercise frequently in cold weather). So for me, this is a good average to base it on. Everybody is different, so maybe Mr. or Mrs. Mckenzie have higher metabolisms than the majority.

[[FLK] Lalabird <3]

Originally posted by troylights:

In real life, lack of food is not the primary concern in a survival situation. A normal sized adult has a substantial amount of body fat that can be burned for fuel. Let's say your player character is a 180 lbs. male with 25% body fat. That's about 45 lbs. of body fat. There's around 3500 kcal of energy in a pound of body fat. 45 x 3500 = 157,500 kcal of stored energy, enough to fast on water alone for a couple of months, if absolutely necessary.

The idea that one has to stave off hunger is a fallacy. Our evolutionary design is well suited to periodic fasting. Modern humans gorging on refined carbohydrate ladden junk food, which is designed to increase appetite, suffer the pangs of hunger more strongly. Nevertheless, after several days of discomfort and adjustment, it is entirely possible to enter a normal fasting metabolic state.

This is the point that I feel should be made, essentially. In the situation the PC finds themselves in, they should be more worried about shelter, warmth, water and predators than their food consumption.

[Brolocaust]

Originally posted by troylights:

In real life, lack of food is not the primary concern in a survival situation. A normal sized adult has a substantial amount of body fat that can be burned for fuel. Let's say your player character is a 180 lbs. male with 25% body fat. That's about 45 lbs. of body fat. There's around 3500 kcal of energy in a pound of body fat. 45 x 3500 = 157,500 kcal of stored energy, enough to fast on water alone for a couple of months, if absolutely necessary.

The idea that one has to stave off hunger is a fallacy. Our evolutionary design is well suited to periodic fasting. Modern humans gorging on refined carbohydrate ladden junk food, which is designed to increase appetite, suffer the pangs of hunger more strongly. Nevertheless, after several days of discomfort and adjustment, it is entirely possible to enter a normal fasting metabolic state.

I think it's much more difficult to get away with this in a cold environment. Not only does your metabolism slow down but as you lose insulation as you lose fat. That means you would become colder at an exponential rate. I also think a more realistic body fat composition would be 12-15%. A person with 25% body fat would be less mobile than your average healthy adult, and they would lose weight very quickly.

I do agree that calories are burned very quickly in this game, but on the other hand it's quite easy to exploit "starvation mode" where you only lose 1% health per hour but you can still do unlimited manual labor without burning any calories. They need to find some middle ground where I can eat food a slower and more sustainable rate.

[[FLK] Lalabird <3]

The middle ground is what I'd push for. I do think that calorie burn is too high, there are other ways to gate activity. But food -should- be a concern.

[CatHat]

You die of obesity at the end of the long dark.

[Copper Savant]

Does the calorie burn rate slow down when you have warmer clothes? I am about to hit 50 days and have the wolf coat, deerskin boots and rabbit mittens which are great. Inside, during the day it can "feel like" 74 degrees... I shouldn't be burning calories at the same rate as being outside when it feels like 37. There are studies that prove this. For example, you burn more calories when sleeping with the window open because your body is using more energy to stay warmer.

[Fwip]

Originally posted by troylights:

There's around 3500 kcal of energy in a pound of body fat. 45 x 3500 = 157,500 kcal of stored energy, enough to fast on water alone for a couple of months, if absolutely necessary.

I think you might have crunched a few wrong numbers there, but generally speaking, humans can survive a good while without food before starvation sets in.

Originally posted by Brolocaust:

Not only does your metabolism slow down but as you lose insulation as you lose fat. That means you would become colder at an exponential rate.

Body fat isn't as practical in that regard, especially in a cold environment where you lose most of your body heat through your head, ears, hands, feet, etc (i.e, places with very low BF%).

[Zirkel]

Have you ever just let yourself starve for a while? It's really great, I just let myself starve for like 3-4 days before i finally became a bit concerned, ate like 1 pork and beans and went to sleep as usual, back up to 100%. Water and Weather are the ones you should always worry about, chances are even in a tough spot you can find food before you die of starvation.

Also has anyone seen the cattails?! Light weight and calories aren't that bad, you find 6 and it weighs the same as a Pork n' Beans, but has 2x the calories, and you get tinder ontop of it. Pretty damn cool.

[Brolocaust]

Yeah cattails are kinda OP. They have more calories per pound than meat and almost any other kind of food! If they regrow at a decent rate then I could probably survive on eating those alone...

[Faiozen]

Originally posted by Agrinja:

The middle ground is what I'd push for. I do think that calorie burn is too high, there are other ways to gate activity. But food -should- be a concern.

I agree with agrinja on this one.
I do think it's high at the moment, but I would be very wary of a significant change.

Edit: Sleeping and other idle activities seem to burn too much.

[turquoiseknight]

I don't think it's too far out of wack. People who work in extreme cold environments need lots of calories for thier bodies to maintain tempurature. For example, builders in Antarctica and gas extraction workers Northern Alaska typically consume 6000 to 8000 calories per day. Here we are, walking and running around freezing tempuratures. Your character is working. I do think there should be more variation though. Like if you're out and about, you burn calories quick. Indoors that rate is reduced and if you hava fire going, reduced even more so.