What Measure is a Crafted Torch?

[aaduwall]

First off, I'd like to give a big thank you to the dev team for giving us the new torch and flare mechanics with regards to campfires. I was thrilled last night when I walked into the Camp Office after fending off a wolf and was able to use my still-burning flare to start a fire! I was also very happy several weeks back when I found I could use just any piece of wood as a torch with the "Take Torch" option at any fire! I love both of these things, and they make so much sense!

That being said, I wonder if the "Take Torch" option at fires now makes the "Craft Torch" option at workbenches obsolete. Crafting a torch at a workbench takes some time, requires a specific type of wood (Reclaimed Wood), and also consumes Cloth and Kerosene. Taking a torch from a fire simply involves sticking whatever wood you have on hand (I haven't tested it with sticks—I hope it doesn't work for them because used torches can be harvested for 1 stick, and if that stick can then be turned into a brand new torch...I think you can see where this is headed!) into the fire. It's instant (or nearly so), and if you immediately snuff the torch and throw it down you can repeat the process and build up a nice pile of fresh, as-good-as-crafted torches in a matter of seconds without using up any kerosene, cloth, or reclaimed wood (if you want to save it for snares or whatnot).

Since it's so easy and inexpensive to make torches via the "Take Torch" option at a fire, why would anyone craft torches at the workbench? The only advantage I can think of is that they can be made without having a fire burning, which I guess could be good if you don't have the ability to start a fire at the moment or are conserving matches. Is this the only advantage though? Is it enough of an advantage? I really haven't played enough of the game to be sure.

[Kirsty]

I have not tested the craft torch but maybe it lasts longer

As for sticks yes you put a few in and with sticks alone you can take a torch which shouldn't work - like you say, should be used for thick wood you collect.

[aaduwall]

I just tested this out in a Pilgrim game. I took two torches from the fire, immediately extinguished one of them and let the other burn out (0% quality). I then crafted two torches at the workbench, harvested the ruined torch for a stick, found a fifth torch at low quality (35%, but it said full duration), and then went to the firebarrel in Carter Hydro Dam to test them all out. I lit each in turn then forced my character to drop them by switching to the rifle so I could light the next torch. This was the order I lit them in:
-crafted torch
-taken torch
-new taken torch (taken while highlighting "Stick")
-low quality found torch
-crafted torch
This was also the order in which they winked out an hour or so later. Origin had no effect on burn time.

Additionally, after this I harvested all of the torches for sticks and went back to the fire to see if I could take those for torches as well, but I discovered something stranger. "Take Torch" didn't consume any fuel from my inventory. When I was done I had eight new torches and all 6 of the harvested stick (the stick from the torch I burned out before my experiment was also still in my inventory).

"Take Torch" isn't a cool way to make torches on the fly from your existing fuel like I thought. It's a vending machine essentially dispensing infinite torches for free as long as the fire duration is over 18 minutes. Since each torch can be taken instantly and harvested in two minutes for a stick, that means players can produce 1 stick every two minutes as long as the fire lasts. And since sticks burn for 18 minutes, they could keep this going forever! It's essentially an infinite wood cheat. :P

This needs to be fixed...

[aaduwall]

Just tested this in Voyager. Confirmed that any fire over ~20 minutes in duration will dispense free torches. However, as sticks only burn for 7 minutes, not 18, it's almost impossible to click through the menues and convert the torches into sticks to feed the fire fast enough to keep it going indefinitely. Still a pretty big loophole, though :(

[joefitts63]

Taking a torch from a fire reduces the fire's duration by 20 minutes. Harvesting a torch gives one stick. One stick burns 7 mintes. Where is the loophole?

[aaduwall]

Oh! I didn't see that it reduced the fire duration at all. Never mind! Now I see that there is a cost.

Thanks for pointing that out! It also helps answer the original question too. You might want to craft torches instead of "taking" them if keeping a fire going longer is more important than cloth, kerosine, and reclaimed wood at a workbench.

[EthanT]

It's never worth crafting a torch. Ever. You'd be hard pressed not to find 4 sticks on the ground to make into a fire and then a torch.

However, you may feel dumb for wasting cloth, kerosene, and wood which all have better uses on a torch you could've made with 5 minutes of playing pick up sticks. :P

[Lord Flenser]

Already discussed here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/305620/discussions/0/517141624281961325/

where I called the creation of re-usable torches from a fire an exploit in the game.

Bethany's response was:

Originally posted by hinterlandcommunity_bethany:

It's not necessarily an exploit if things are behaving as intended, but it is something I can pass along for consideration.

[Machin Shin]

would be good to increase the burn and or light value of a crafted torch

[Lord Flenser]

+1
or forcing a fire-born torch to change to 0% if you put it out. (This actually makes sense if you think about it, the cloth and fuel are what make a crafted torch "lightable".)

[aaduwall]

Originally posted by Lord Flenser:

+1
or forcing a fire-born torch to change to 0% if you put it out. (This actually makes sense if you think about it, the cloth and fuel are what make a crafted torch "lightable".)

That does make a lot of sense. A simple firebrand pulled off the campfire is only burning in the first place because it was part of a larger, existing fire. Once out, it'd be really hard to relight, especially in comparison to a torch with kerosene-soaked cloth wrapped around it. That would also make certain both torches had their place in the game.

[Operander]

Originally posted by aaduwall:

Originally posted by Lord Flenser:

+1
or forcing a fire-born torch to change to 0% if you put it out. (This actually makes sense if you think about it, the cloth and fuel are what make a crafted torch "lightable".)

That does make a lot of sense. A simple firebrand pulled off the campfire is only burning in the first place because it was part of a larger, existing fire. Once out, it'd be really hard to relight, especially in comparison to a torch with kerosene-soaked cloth wrapped around it. That would also make certain both torches had their place in the game.

Agreed. I'd say this is the best option.

[cfett199]

Originally posted by aaduwall:

I just tested this out in a Pilgrim game. I took two torches from the fire, immediately extinguished one of them and let the other burn out (0% quality). I then crafted two torches at the workbench, harvested the ruined torch for a stick, found a fifth torch at low quality (35%, but it said full duration), and then went to the firebarrel in Carter Hydro Dam to test them all out. I lit each in turn then forced my character to drop them by switching to the rifle so I could light the next torch. This was the order I lit them in:
-crafted torch
-taken torch
-new taken torch (taken while highlighting "Stick")
-low quality found torch
-crafted torch
This was also the order in which they winked out an hour or so later. Origin had no effect on burn time.

Additionally, after this I harvested all of the torches for sticks and went back to the fire to see if I could take those for torches as well, but I discovered something stranger. "Take Torch" didn't consume any fuel from my inventory. When I was done I had eight new torches and all 6 of the harvested stick (the stick from the torch I burned out before my experiment was also still in my inventory).

"Take Torch" isn't a cool way to make torches on the fly from your existing fuel like I thought. It's a vending machine essentially dispensing infinite torches for free as long as the fire duration is over 18 minutes. Since each torch can be taken instantly and harvested in two minutes for a stick, that means players can produce 1 stick every two minutes as long as the fire lasts. And since sticks burn for 18 minutes, they could keep this going forever! It's essentially an infinite wood cheat. :P

This needs to be fixed...

Taking a torch does not mean infinite torches. To take a torch reduces fire time by 20 minutes. Putting a torch in only grants 10 minutes to the fire time. Sticks only burn for 7 minutes so one gets even less time back into the fire from that route; effectively 5 minutes if they get that stick by harvesting the torch over 2 minutes.

A 100% condition torch burns for 1 hour, regardless of source. The take torch function does make the bench option somewhat obsolete, it ultimately depends on what resources are avaliable. If one has a low start skill, they might be better off initially crafting torches rather than expending wood, tinder, and matches to even get the fire going. Once one has a decent start chance, it might be better since it is more costly to craft a torch (reclaimed wood that burns for 20min + cloth + .2L kerosene) over just 20 minutes of fire, tinder, and maybe a match.

[Selfless]

Umm... my torches all burn for an hour and a half. Just sayin'...
Glad you finally figured it out.