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However, yeah, for a while I thought wolf aggression in the main game was about right and then, over the last year or so, it's seemed like too much. I've more or less stopped playing on the harder modes because on the harder modes, even though I can, with patience, generally avoid getting hurt, the game boils down to: Find and memorize paths with the least chance of getting attacked. And, while, yes, of course, that's part of the game, I find the game less fun when finding and memorizing paths is the core mechanic of the game.
I've said my piece and complained/explained at length. I get that it's a challenge and challenges can be fun. I still like the game overall. And, of course, being able to customize the number of wolves and their behavior means I can play the game without exclusively focusing on the wolves and I do play some with the lower settings. From my point of view, it's not just a balance issue, it's pretty much the core part of the game and I find the game less fun when I'm "winning" by memorizing paths to reduce the risk of being attacked. I think I'm pretty good at avoiding attacks. I can, of course, use bait, kill, and/or break line of sight. All of that is fun. However, at some point, the odds of a random attack that simply can not be detected/avoided outside of very narrow paths, increased to the point that surviving longer than, oh, 40 days on the higher levels always means: Memorizing paths and sticking to them.
I'm not sure how I'd go about "fixing" the problem. Maybe just allowing the wolves to wander everywhere will reduce the importance of safe paths? Or, maybe just alerting players a bit more so that, in theory, all attacks can be avoided might work? It's not just a matter of making the woods safer or more dangerous or even less random overall. What I'd aim for is changing the mechanics so that memorizing safe paths is less important to survival than it is now.
My one point five cents. I'm not sure that's exactly helpful and I'm pretty sure this is a minority view point. Also, again, ahem, I very much like the game, it's all all-time fave, and I'll continue to check back in after significant updates and, yo!, I still play now and then. Maybe I've just played all of the hours I need to play and other games beckon.
I completely agree. I'd rather see fewer wolves but when they do appear, they're more dangerous. I'd like to see them behave in a way more unpredictable then just start barking and running strait at the player on sight.
I'd like to see them spawn in packs more, and have them do more silent stalking prey mode more. That would mean the need to be more vigilant as you never know when a wolf pack may be silently stalking you, unless you are paying attention. Silence can be a stronger warning sound then noise can, have wildlife sounds in the area, but when something like a bear or wolf in nearby, the area goes silent. Makes sense as the animals would be hiding from a dangerous predator.
Can you imagine, you're trecking through the woods, hauling your deer kill back to base camp to cook it up, listening to birds call and other small animals scurry about, then everything goes silent. A hush falls over the woods. I don't know about you, but I'd be getting that being watched feeling at that point. Then a wolf howls from behind you. and another off to the left. You veer to the right to angle away from that wolf, and then from front right, a wolf comes charging out of some bushes! You know you're surrounded by the pack!
But most of the time you don't see any wolves. You may hear some howling off in the distance so you know they're out there somewhere, and could strike any time if they get desperate enough, or you blunder into them, which could be another way to trigger a pack attack, but not always, sometimes the wolves will just run away, as their learned fear of humans is still sometimes enough to override the odd behavior caused by the geomagnetic storms.
It would be great if Hinterland could get that sort of wolf behaviour going. I know it would be challenging for them to code an AI that advanced, but if they could, they'd have potentially one of those defining games of a generation. The sort that redefines its genre. Like Super Mario Bros did for the side scrolling platformer back in the day. Or Undertale redefined the JRPG style game.
Seriously Unserious
I'd like to see them spawn in packs more, and have them do more silent stalking prey mode more. That would mean the need to be more vigilant as you never know when a wolf pack may be silently stalking you, unless you are paying attention. Silence can be a stronger warning sound then noise can, have wildlife sounds in the area, but when something like a bear or wolf in nearby, the area goes silent. Makes sense as the animals would be hiding from a dangerous predator.
Can you imagine, you're trekking through the woods, hauling your deer kill back to base camp to cook it up, listening to birds call and other small animals scurry about, then everything goes silent. A hush falls over the woods. I don't know about you, but I'd be getting that being watched feeling at that point. Then a wolf howls from behind you. and another off to the left. You veer to the right to angle away from that wolf, and then from front right, a wolf comes charging out of some bushes! You know you're surrounded by the pack!
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Love it… yes Id have to research into wolf attacks on humans but use those findings to base the core mechanics of wolves … Ok I can buy the aurora has effected their behavior, but canceled out a few hundred of thousand years of evolution?
Perhaps they can act crazy when they are under the effect with glowing eyes but as a blanket statement sounds more like a excuse especially when its obvious to the majority that something is wrong ( I think even the critics agree but for whatever reasons wont admit it). Could be many reasons why we arrived where we are from the oversight that wildlife would become so important to not planning out more complex behaviors perhaps just attacking looked good on paper but was lost in translation.
Speculation.. I'm not a mentalist, truth is who knows and what does it matter. The current system needs improvement and a lot of it. Lets keep in mind that the fine folks of hinterland are human beings and are therefore inherently flawed (like all of us). We tend to forget just how stupid our species really is, people usually have to die before we figure out its bad.
So that being said it cant hurt to offer opinions. I really like this game and see so much potential in it… But there's a lot we may not understand from the talent of coders to the office politics at play these are almost endless. I'm getting off topic I just don’t want anyone seeing this as an attack. If you like it how it is that’s great not every change will improve it and some could outright kill it (Star Wars Galaxies Survivor). Anyway Enough on this.
In the making of this comment I decided to cut it off and start an new discussion with the topic Animal AI- What would you change please check it out if it interest you
Looked like they were close with the 'wolf fear' option, but it turned out not to be the case.
I read someone's experience of a glitch in 'passive mode' where just once in a while a wolf would attack. They reportedly loved this, and I can understand why. So much more of a thrill when it isn't 100% expected.
This is not a matter of difficulty or challenge, btw. It's a matter of immersion & gameplay.
Clearly, some feel that the 100% aggro zombie wolves are the way to go (devs included), but for the many of us who would like to see something in between passive and nutso, it seems a relatively simple tweak, to include in the custom settings.
Like, 75% run, 25% aggro, for example. This would be a good start at building on the ruefully 1 dimensional Long Dark wolf.
They are meant to be exactly what they are, the uber enemy, the Nazis, the evil scientists, the devil. It's why they are hinterland's logo, the loping wolf is the loading icon, and everything else. For the record they can be dealt with or avoided on every single difficulty mode in this game, if you learn enough about them (survival in this game requires, above all else, knowledge). And as mentioned before (+1 btw) they are eventually delivery pizzas and the number one source of food for your run.
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” ~Sun Tzu
I also want to see them do more stalking and less just mindlessly charge in barking to all the world "I'm here, I'm attacking you, pull out your gun and shoot me!"
It would make more varied and unpredictable interactions with the wolves so they truly would be our nemasis, rather then a meat delivery service, ready to run to their death barking out their location and intentions every time without fail.
In other words, if you want to hunt wolves, you have to first search for them, and then be careful of their pack mates who could easily turn the tables on you. Not just a go out with a scrap of very smelly rotten meat, when wolf barks, drop it, back away a few steps in the opposite direction, and wait for the wolf to mindlessly trot up to the meat to be shot.
In other words, I want to see the wolves be less predictable, attack less, but when they do attack, it's in more creative and menacing ways, then just lone wolf suicide charge.
I'd rather have a very hungry pack that migrates across the map and only have ONE per map. Then hearing that wolf howl would inspire dread rather than make me think I've just found my next meal or, at worst, annoyance that I have another three or four wolves to kill or circumvent even though I just did that very same thing a km away. Hunting them would be more of a challenge. I'd have to actually start using the bait mechanics for once...or carefully follow them waiting for one to go off on it's own briefly (though game modes with rifles would be largely unchanged...I am sure the pack would run at the noise). I've read some posts that wolves are supposed to be a challenge for the player...most often they seem like a food source to me.
Well, and I guess I've always taken issue in that all animals are immune to the weather. If I will basically freeze solid in a few minutes, a wolf shouldn't be able to just walk around like nothing is happening. Wouldn't even have to have actual spawned animals die...just would be nice to randomly find a frozen rabbit, or even a rare bear, after a really bad storm to mimic that wildlife isn't immune to the "long dark" either.
What it all boils down to is playability and the game experience the way the devs want us to experience it. Totally random wildlife would be fun... up to a point, in much the same way that random map generation would be fun up to a point. The entire game is basically having a very small set of circumstances that you can control, and using that to overcome a VAST set of circumstances you have no control over whatsoever. As it is, chaos inevitably wins every time. Yin and Yang - the predictable stuff is the Yin, the random stuff is the Yang. No balance, no harmony, and to the Devs credit they hit a really good balance. Making everything random might make a good DLC some day in the future, but I can't see a way that it would improve the core game as it is. My 0.02.
It's about making there be more POSSIBLE ways the wolf encounter can go down then just that ONE single progression. The game does have some decent wolf stalking mechanics as it is, though IMO they could be improved on with effort, but I rarely ever see it happen. It's almost always insta-charge.
My point is also about building a deeper experience and story to the world we're playing in then just wolf-charge, deer-run-away. You should check out another thread where we're discussing what we'd like to see in the animal AIs and I think you'll see some amazing ideas that could take TLD from a good game, into a classic that defines it's genre.
Imagine if loners, upon encountering you, kept their distance and tailed you, drawing in closer if you turn your back on them (and attacking if you keep your back turned for too long) and stopping or backing off when you turn and face them. They might disappear from sight for awhile, but they'd still be following you, and you'd have to spend your time constantly looking over your shoulder. Maybe the lone wolf would even be acting as a scout, and if you didn't manage to somehow lose it in time, eventually its friends would show up to help finish you off.
The wolves' aggression isn't necessarily the problem (as this is explained as an effect of the geomagnetic radiation), but the way they express it could have been done better. The predictability and frequency of wolf encounters actually makes the game more bland, and the purpose of overhauling the wolves' AI wouldn't be to make the game easier, but rather require more thought and strategy, and in this way be more challenging.
You cant customise the challenges....
Im having similar issues, to that player you quote, with wolves in Whiteout. It seems a soon as I find a rifle, they know and stake out the garage! No warning barks and this last time I literally was face to face with the wolf as I climbed the snowbank to get to the road- no chance to run or even aim.
I'll add to that: If you can't avoid a blind spot for any reason, there are a few strategies you can use to limit your risk:
1- Approach in a crouch. By crawling low, the wolves have to be significantly closer to spot you, so more chance you'll spot them first.
2- At a blind curve or bank, stop (crouched) and listen, if there's a wolf behind the bank or around the corner, you may hear it howl or hear it's pawsteps in the snow. Remember, sound is a very good sense to use in TLD, in some cases more important then sight.
3- If in doubt, have a few spare rocks, and throw it off to the side, if a wolf was waiting on the other side of the bank, that rock should distract it and move it away so you can set LoS on it first and avoid or shoot before the wolf can lock on to you.
4- The recent update changed bait mechanics, be aware of this as baiting wolves may not work like you're used to now.