Fire on ice

[JiffyPopKids]

Hey everybody! I saw some people talking about how we can light fires on ice and I was thinking; is this realistic? IRL, wouldn't your fire extinguish itself by melting the water and putting out the coals? You could probably have a fire going for maybe an hour or so, but I assume the fire would melt a hole in the ice and water down our fire? I feel like it's a bit odd that we can do this. Can anyone confirm that this could work IRL, or could not? The idea of starting a fire on ice IRL has never even crossed my mind. Both considering I don't live near any creeks / ponds and I'm very rarely in the situation I need to start a fire to stay warm outside. :)

If this is unrealistic, would you like to see it chnaged, or do you like this how it is? :)

[iheartmyocd]

No, it totally works. When I was a kid my father used to go snowmobiling with his friends (and us kids) out to the local lake, where they would build a massive bonfire and park the snowmobiles around it while they drank and us kids complined about the cold and threw snowballs at each other.

That's the practical IRL example. If you want the physics of it, the way thermodynamics works is heat transfers itself to cold, not the other way around. The heat of a small, isolated fire is being absorbed by a massive body of near freezing water covered by a solid foot or two of actual frozen water. No matter what, the heat of the fire cannot physically dissapate more than a couple of inches in any direction along a proscribed shere other than upwards or sideways into the air, which is also cold and absorbing the heat. If you think of the air, the ice and the water of a massive lake on a freezing day as a bunch of negative numbers, and the heat of a localized fire as positive numbers, you can kind of picture how much fire you would actually need to overwhelm them. Heat disappates as cold absorbs it. The further heat goes, the less effective it is, and fire doesn't get hotter... it gets colder as it burns. Trust me, the math is there and fire on ice actually works. I know, I've done it.

EDIT - forgot to address the "water melting the coals" bit. Once it melts under the fire, the water is no longer cold but hot, which absorbs less heat. As long as the fire is hotter than the boiling point, the water will evaporate before it can extinguish the coals. So long as it is cold enough under that water, the heat will continue to evaporate that, but be overwhelmed by the massive cold underneath it once it does. GIven enough time and a steady enough fire, it will actually refreeze under it. Short of building a fire hot and long enough to boil the entire lake, you are perfectly safe having a fire sitting on the ice.

[IFIYGD]

http://tumblehomelearning.com/fire-on-the-ice-how-does-that-work-ask-the-ice-man/

[iheartmyocd]

Thanks IFY, I forgot to include "oh yeah, and heat rises not sinks" in my physics lecture lol.

[bikegramps]

I remember as a young man in alaska at 30 below we would build a fire out on the river, after 3 or 4 hours there would be a puddle a few inches bigger than the fire and 2 to 3 inches deep. Some of the burning wood would be floating. But mostly the coals in the puddle would go out but the coals /wood on top of that would continue to burn merrily. I never saw it melt in more than about 3 inches deep.

[IFIYGD]

Originally posted by iheartmyocd:

Thanks IFY, I forgot to include "oh yeah, and heat rises not sinks" in my physics lecture lol.

LOL! xD

[iheartmyocd]

Originally posted by IFIYGD:

Originally posted by iheartmyocd:

Thanks IFY, I forgot to include "oh yeah, and heat rises not sinks" in my physics lecture lol.

LOL! xD

Meant to give you a "thanks" for that, just reread and realized I hadn't. Sorry Mrs. Physice is really hard at his time of night and after a few beers lol.

[IFIYGD]

Lol! I can relate, to the "few beers" part , and Google Search is my friend. xD

[iheartmyocd]

Meh, I had personal experience and an amateurs love of physics for this one. Im only happy thet the beer, while it didn't help, didn't hinder too much lol.

[mf187doubleg]

Originally posted by IFIYGD:

http://tumblehomelearning.com/fire-on-the-ice-how-does-that-work-ask-the-ice-man/

that is a cool meeting on ice :)

[IFIYGD]

Originally posted by mf187doubleg:

Originally posted by IFIYGD:

http://tumblehomelearning.com/fire-on-the-ice-how-does-that-work-ask-the-ice-man/

that is a cool meeting on ice :)

They have some good pages in their blog,. I know it is a site for selling books and educational materials, but they have some interesting real stories as well.

The platform idea would be more "realistic", but try building a platform to make a fire on snow or ice when a wolf is trotting at you, growling. They are not going to sit like a good doggie and wait for you to build that platform... scaring wolves away with fires will stop being a "thing", immediately.

{Google is my friend} xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q-aQyGoySA

[nomis]

at the end of the day its just a game. how realistic do you want it.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by iheartmyocd:

No, it totally works.

It works because fire radiates up and outwards more than it does downwards. The Ash also builds a protective layer beneath the coal, which is why you need to clean burn the fire, then remove the ash when you do a dug out canoe with a fire burn, because if you do not remove the ash you will not burn down.

And the water created by melting serves as additional insulation to the ice below.

Originally posted by nomis:

at the end of the day its just a game. how realistic do you want it.

Its a game sold on its realism.. so as realistic as possible. Or we might as well go play ARK.

[JiffyPopKids]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by iheartmyocd:

No, it totally works.

It works because fire radiates up and outwards more than it does downwards. The Ash also builds a protective layer beneath the coal, which is why you need to clean burn the fire, then remove the ash when you do a dug out canoe with a fire burn, because if you do not remove the ash you will not burn down.

And the water created by melting serves as additional insulation to the ice below.

Originally posted by nomis:

at the end of the day its just a game. how realistic do you want it.

Its a game sold on its realism.. so as realistic as possible. Or we might as well go play ARK.

It's not solid on it's realism. There are quite a few realistic aspects, but the game is fairly unrealistic.

A good example is the wildlife. animals would not be out in a blizzard, they would not grow magical colors when the lights happen, rabbits would not be prancing all over the place as if it was spring, bears would inhabit the deep caves we find. Or even the Carter Hydro Dam. That's just off the top of my head.

I know all the things I listed are there to balance the game and make it more interesting, but they're unrealistic. IRL all the animals would be hunkered down in their dens or caves.