Where, when, what is The Long Dark?

[{O|G} Erik the Red]

Greetings, fellow The Long Dark players and potential math and science enthusiasts! Follow along for some interesting calculation and discussion of some particular or peculiar elements of The Long Dark. To begin, I wished to figure out what I could from the Long Dark with the little that we know. So, we know that it takes place somewhere in Canada, on a fictional island called Great Bear Island, in the wake of global disaster. But where is it? What is this disaster? How does it effect Canada, let alone the world? Perhaps we shall find out more in story mode, but for now we can only draw hypothesis and conclusions from what we can find (just like in game!).
Please use this thread as a hub of knowledge that can be speculated, or better, derived from the game in empirical observation, and as it perhaps compares to theoretical reality.

Latitude

Canada spans the globe from 41N to 83N in latitude. Could we figure out where Great Bear Island is based from what can be observed in game? The Sun might tell us! Disregarding for now its "artisticly" large size (which may lead the observer to other questions, later on...), and the limitations of what has been added to the game for basic representation rather than modeled reality, the sun's position can be used to keep track of time and space. The sun is of great importance to the surviving observer; the day / night cycle a natural distinction to measure how long we have lived; whose light fills the world by which we track time to plan our day, our future (the Dark is Rising); it may help prevent us from getting lost as a beacon of direction (go towards the light?), and it may keep us that much warmer or even grant us fire! (or are you still not worshipping to the Sun God/Goddess?)
But I digress, the sun's postion can possibly tell us the latitude and season of our location. How? By how high it is in the sky at noon of course! So without further ado, the evidence.

Ok so when is noon? I venture to say somewhere between 7 and 6 hours of daylight left based off the time. Which is roughly when the sun does reach its highest point in the sky. But how to measure how high up the sun is? Well I took a couple of screenshots so I would be able to measure and count the pixels, and calculate that into degrees. One shows staring at the the sun at noon and how high up it is from the sea horizon, and the other shows staring directly up to the zenith with the sun in view to the south. At my resolution, I measured 1000 pixels from the horizon to the center of the sun, the sun itself having a radius of about 95 pixels, and from the zenith to the edge of the sun approximately another 916 pixels. So overall the total distance spanning the horizon to the zenith is about 2000 pixels. Equating that to a 90 degree span, we get 1 degree for about every 22 pixels.
Sidenote: The sun is therefore calculated at ~8.5 degrees about 17 times larger than its actual size, 0.5 degrees. What might that mean?
Sidenote 2: I suppose if one knows their trigonometry the elevation angle could be found if one is able to measure known distances and heights using shadows...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=898450396
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=898453624

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_equator
So then we calculate the sun's position to be ~44.5 - 45 degrees high in the sky at noon. Ah, but that is only the height of the elciptic, which is offset from the celestial equator and varies from season to season, based on the tilt of the earth. At the vernal and autumnal equinoxes, the ecliptic's offset is 0 so the suns position is at the CE. At the winter solstice the sun is lower from the CE by about 23.4 degrees, and at the summer solstice the sun is higher by about 23.4 degrees. If we know where the CE is, we can find the latitude by L = 90 - CE, which would tell us just how far north our location is. So we just need to know what season we are in...

If we assume winter, then the CE is offset the horizon 68 degrees meaning our latitude would be about 22 degrees N. That is about where Cuba and Mexico are, and unless Canada has a secret Island there, and this global disaster has really messed up the weather, then it could be safely assumed its not wintertime in The Long Dark.

If we assume spring or autumn, the CE is 45 degrees from the horizon and our latitude then is also 45 degreees N. This is about Southeastern Canada, near the Vermont border, though Maine and Nova Scotia. However on the equinoxes, daylight and nightime would be about even, each about 12 hours long. In game we have about 13+ hours of daylight, 10+ hours of dark, so it is probably a bit closer to the summer solstice, whether early spring or late summer.

If we assume summer, then the CE is only about 21 degrees from the horizon and our latitude is ~69 degrees N. This puts us way up there along the arctic coast of Canada, and is indeed above the Arctic circle, which would mean that if it is indeed summer time, we should be experiencing 24 hour daylight. It's also pretty cold in The Long Dark to be a normal summer, and come winter time, with some 24 hour darkness, just how cold could it get?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Hours_of_daylight_vs_latitude_vs_day_of_year_cmglee.svg
Now we could also try to use the amount of daylight we know of as a factor to help figure out what season we may be in. We have currently a constant ~14 hours daylight, 10 hours darkness, because seasons have yet to be added in The Long Dark. If we go by the line between the green and yellow area in the daytime chart, we get an interesting variety of combinations of latitudes and season start times. Now if we assume Great Bear Island is within the existing latitude range of Canada, then the game could either start in early spring or late summer. Both would have interesting rammifications as to how gameplay could turn out, with either summer warmth and extended daylight approaching or winter cold and extended darkness. Although perhaps in wake of the geomagnetic "global disaster", the temps are already most likely colder than usual.

Having already shown that the solar elevation angle is ~45 degrees at noon, and that the declination offset of the ecliptic from the CE is somewhere in between the two solstices (but likely nearer summer), we can rework the formula found here:
http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/properties-of-sunlight/elevation-angle

AE - Angle of Elevation
L - Latitude
D - Declination Angle

from AE = 90 + L - D and 180 - AE to 180 - 90 - L + D
to AE = 90 - L + D , (because the sun is in the south)
to L = 45 + D, based from observation.


So our latitude is reduced to a function of our offset, which can be described as function of time, ie what day we start.
http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/properties-of-sunlight/declination-angle
From the graph at the bottom we see the declination gets larger as we head towards summer, which would increase our variance in observed latitude.

Using a calculator and rough estimates through trial and error, I found a declination value (and time) that near satisfies our line on the latitude graph. Day 105 into the year yields a declination angle of about 9.3 degrees, which would make our latitude about 54.3 degrees north. Checking the daytime graph, we can see this value is near or on the 14 hours of daylight line. That would be about mid April as a potential start point. But as I said, day 240 into the year also has the same declination angle value, at the same latitude with also the same amount of daylight. That is about near the end of August. At this latitude, the sun would be up a bit over 17 hours during summer, and as we head into The Long Dark of winter, only a bit over 7 hours.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/54th_parallel_north
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/55th_parallel_north

So perhaps the devs may take note and that perhaps one day if seasons are added, the values of daylight, latitude, and time will be tweaked to link together, or at least correlate to, as they do and are.



Edit: My intial assumption of 6 1/2 hours for noon may be inaccurate. After telling the time via shadow (more on this to follow), it could be that solar noon is closer to 7 or 7 1/2 hours. This would mean the sun be even higher in the sky at actual noon, and a new estimate puts it at about 48.6 degrees high in the sky, possibly meaning our latitude is lower / further along towards summer. The revised equation becomes L = 41.4 + D, which means that the variance between declination and lattidude will be greater closer to summer. The day 107 into the year has a declination of about 10 degrees, where our observed angle would yield a latitude of about 51 degrees N. Day 238 also would have a similar observation.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=898455241
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=898456216
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895486615

"At this latitude the sun is visible for 16 hours, 33 minutes during the summer solstice and 7 hours, 55 minutes during the winter solstice."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51st_parallel_north

In light of the trailer suggesting The Long Dark is heading into winter, it would make more sense to have the start date be the end of August. The autumnal equinox and the winter solstice are on ~ Day 265 and Day 355 of the calender year, which means that the game would have about ~27 days until we have more night than day, and ~117 days until darkness peaks at the winter solstice.

[{O|G} Erik the Red]

Solar clock

At first it was just a clock, using the edge of a tree shadow to measure the points of time where the hour changed, much like a sundial.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=899286439
But then I figured I could further estimate when solar noon is by the length of the shadow.
Then finding a flat surface (plenty of ice), and a tall tree top, I placed a stick at the tip of and in line with the shadow in increments (hour changes marked by the appropriate number of sticks).
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=899225406
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=899226411

This produced a row of sticks but at various angles. The length of the shadow of the tree is shortest when the sticks are most parallel to each other, at solar noon.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=899227390
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=899229227
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=899228306

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_clock
An interesting note is that the noontime shadow length could also be an indicator of the season, since the length of shadow is based on how high the ecliptic is, aka the angle of the sun.

[Glemt]

Loving this.

[markwars]

Thanks for the interesting lunchtime reading.

[Lonelywolf]

...... WHAT THE ♥♥♥♥? What posessed you to go through all that trouble my friend? Either way, I love the math and time that went into this. Interesting finds. Maybe hinterland would jump in and comment, and maybe adjust the size of the sun and its posistioning to reflect the island's actual posistion.

[listless]

This is really neat!

[Kain]

I have no idea what's gotten into you, but I'm glad, that's actually fun.

[IFIYGD]

LOVE it! And very well done, and thought out. Your geekiness shines brightly. :)

[Artyon]

On the official forum we found that the geogmatic disaster occured at least the 6 September 2019 :
-the climber's note said that the big plane crash in TM was during the night of the 6 september.
- on of the skill book (maybe "survive the outddors !", the fire skill book) it is printed 2019 edition.

So we have two years to prepare before the long dark will come !!

[Artyon]

Theorically the game start after the Event; So you're right by saying that the game begin around August ( early September in fact)

[Kain]

Event... I always loved original names.

[AAAARGH!]

That is all very interesting, but it's all quite useless in the end. The game environment is pure fantasy, so all you can really determine is how the virtual world currently functions (sun movement, etc.). It doesn't really resemble the real world except in a very impressionistic way, and even that is optimised for gameplay.

The game appears to have twelve hour days and ten hour nights with a couple of hours of transition between them. There is no way you would really see that in northern BC in winter. I live at a similar latitude in northern Europe, where winter nights are long and dark, and days are short. The sun makes a pitiful arc across the southern sky in winter, and remains somewhat in the southern sky even in high summer. Summer days, in contrast, seem to go on forever. The sky lights up around 3:30am and it stays light until nearly midnight.

Gigantic suns are an equatorial phenomenon, by the way.

[mattpage84]

Reminds me of a fishing community in newfoundland, could be 2019 or 1969, either way screech still survived

[{O|G} Erik the Red]

Originally posted by Lonelywolf:

...... WHAT THE ♥♥♥♥? What posessed you to go through all that trouble my friend? Either way, I love the math and time that went into this. Interesting finds.

Originally posted by Kain:

I have no idea what's gotten into you, but I'm glad, that's actually fun.

Science, my friends: seeking answers to burning questions (throw another log on the fire while we're at it). A good way to pass the time on my 200 day Voyageur run.

Originally posted by flaviusrex:

That is all very interesting, but it's all quite useless in the end. The game environment is pure fantasy, so all you can really determine is how the virtual world currently functions (sun movement, etc.). It doesn't really resemble the real world except in a very impressionistic way, and even that is optimised for gameplay.

Determining how the world functions is part of the methodolgy of the game, as is the basis for science in real life as well. And while it may be impressionistic apocalyptic fantasy, the world we play in is certainly based off of one we live(d) in. Now, just as the real world is governed by laws and formulas of physics and science, so too is our virtual world to the extent the mechanics allow / have progressed. Just how accurate those rules may be to their real life counterparts isn't as important so long as those relations are actually there. Although obviously, the more accurate impression, the better the representation.

Originally posted by flaviusrex:

The game appears to have twelve hour days and ten hour nights with a couple of hours of transition between them. There is no way you would really see that in northern BC in winter. I live at a similar latitude in northern Europe, where winter nights are long and dark, and days are short. The sun makes a pitiful arc across the southern sky in winter, and remains somewhat in the southern sky even in high summer. Summer days, in contrast, seem to go on forever. The sky lights up around 3:30am and it stays light until nearly midnight.

It does seem likely that Great Bear Island is along the Pacific Coast of Canada, near British Columbia, which ranges in latitude from 49-60 degrees N. The 60th parallel does have almost 19 hours of sunlight in summer, and only near 6 in winter. But these time variances become less extreme further south where possibly Great Bear Island is located, based off of current ingame observation. It is also why we cannot assume that The Long Dark is currently based off the normal BC Canadian winter; while the geography may be based off Hinterland Studio's own backyard, the amount of daylight suggests we are nearer to the summer side of spring or fall. And the ingame temperatures are much colder than the usual seasonal temperatures, even if it were winter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60th_parallel_north

[Mitch Larson]

Well actually this may be a post-apocalyptic fantasy, but there are very real facts to support theories of it. "A geomagnetic storm is a temporary disturbance of the Earth's magnetosphere. Associated with solar coronal mass ejections, coronal holes, or solar flares, a geomagnetic storm is caused by a solar wind shock wave which typically strikes the Earth's magnetic field 24 to 36 hours after the event." quote taken from Science Daily. Now thinking in terms of that. The geomagnetic event happens, The plane and presumably the pilot crash land onto timber wolf mountain. When we go into cabins or houses or cottages, what do we see? 1. no electricity of any kind, including from the Hoover Dam. 2. Microwaves and clocks are non functional. 3. Cars and trucks all seem to have batteries, but are also non-functional. basically this event has knocked out power for everything. Why is this important? Well let's think of this in terms of science. In an electro magnetic pulse, it's been proven by science that electrical items stop functioning. Planes, cars, robots, computers, etc. It basically sends out a wave that litterally turns electricity to off. And it can last for a bit depending on how strong the pulse is. Solar flare activity specifically comes from the sun itself (or from other instances like say a star going super nova), thus geomagnetic activity is created after the event itself.



Anyone else notice, we have military jackets and boots, and we only have 5 real weapons of use in this North Canadian area. We have a hunting rifle, we have a hunting knife, a heavy hammer, an axe, and the classic bow and arrow. If there are military garments laying around, one would surmise that there may (or later on must) be some kind of military facility hiding out there. We even have military rations or (MRE) as the game calls them. So that brings to mind, will there be some kind of Military station hidden somewhere in the game, in the future?



So back to my main theory. We've all seen lots of corpses around. Some fresh, some frozen. and 8 times out of 10 they don't have anything on em. Kinda makes you wonder why there are so many bodies doesn't it? What if this one plane, didn't hold just one passenger, but say more than 12 based off the plane found in the TM area. Based off videos from youtube that i've seen from that plane. It looks like a commercial airliner to me as opposed to a simple bi-plane with a single engine that typically holds one or two.



You kind of have to wonder. What in the world happened to everybody? The entire landscape from mystery lake and PV, to CH and TM are all void of human life. You either find corpses or frozen bodies, or you find animals. And not too many of those. Where are all the birds? We see crows flying around. And we hear the calls of I think loons, and some of the other assorted night-time calls, but we never actually see any of these other bird species.



Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it? I'm sure the story will explain things in greater detail, but here are some observed facts. The event itself (Ie the geomagnetic disturbance) has 1. Brought down a plane. 2. Electricity is non-functional. 3. The entire landscape is barren of human life (save) for our character.



I'm sure "some" human life would probably fall during a disaster of that magnitude but I have some doubts that the entire landscape would be that barren of human life. Given the circumstances that it is human instinct to survive.

[IFIYGD]

Originally posted by Mitch Larson:

Anyone else notice, we have military jackets and boots, and we only have 5 real weapons of use in this North Canadian area. We have a hunting rifle, we have a hunting knife, a heavy hammer, an axe, and the classic bow and arrow. If there are military garments laying around, one would surmise that there may (or later on must) be some kind of military facility hiding out there. We even have military rations or (MRE) as the game calls them. So that brings to mind, will there be some kind of Military station hidden somewhere in the game, in the future?

Just responding to this part of your post. Why does finding military clothing = "there must be a hidden militay ry base"? Ever heard of thrift shops, Army-Navy surplus shops, and the like? Back in the 80's, wearing military jackets, pants, boots, hats, etc. was all the rage, even if you did nt have a single freind or family member in any branch of the military. probably half of the teens and young adults I knew worse them. On the farm, we loved them.

Why? Lots of pockets to hild our stuff. Made teens and young adults feel like badasses wearing them. Warm, damn warm, for working a farm or construction job or the like, where you were ourside. CAMO. Great for hunting, or just playing "ninja" games like "Capture the Flag" with your friends in the woods. Damn durable clothing. TONS of it available in second hand shops and military surplus shops, at low costs. (We still buy our poly-pro underlayers at surplus shops, cheaper than online or in outdoors gear stores.) PTSD- many ex-military may have sought solitude in places like Great Bear Island, and jobs working in logging, fishing, whaling and other careers that kept them away from the stressors of city life. And they took their wardrobes with them. My husband has been retired from the military and LE for years, But still has his military clothing, and much of his gear (that he was permitted to keep). And he still wears them, though he only looks at his dress uniforms from then, and those from his short itme in civilian LE, with a wistful smile on his face, inside their prtoective garment bags.

Lots of reasons why military style clothing may b found laying about, besides some secret military bases. Just my thoughts.