Real Handcuff Solutions

[MechWarden]

I'm getting kind of sick of these one-sided suggestions to 'fix' aspects of handcuffs, and thought I'd suggest stuff that actually could make using them worthwhile.

These likely should be tested in some mod, since I can't see Nelson just blindly trying them out in the vanilla version, despite how 'awesome and perfect' I think they are. (Well, I don't think that, but you get the joke)

Catch, Loot, and Release (CLR)

You get the drop on someone, and either through threats or from fear of dying, the other guy puts their hands up.

You handcuff them and these is the options and effects that come up.

• Handcuffed player is temporary a 'friendly' while handcuffed, and can't be shot or killed by you or others in your group. Obviously, if they break out of the cuffs or you unlock them at this point, the person losses those privileges.
  
  
• You are given the option to loot a hand full of items (like maybe 5 or so items) from their inventory, assuming you have handcuff keys (this is for continuity). Checking the inventory triggers the CLR feature. (and no, not the calcium, lime, and rust chemical based cleaner )
  
  
• After finished looting, the handcuffed person will be put on a timer and will be automatically released from the handcuff, with the handcuffs returning to the key holder.
  
  
• The released player will have a short 'friendly status' grace period where they can leave the area, with the grace period ending immediately if a weapon is readied or if they start punching back. If the captive person isn't moving away, the clock just counts down, but if a capturing group member follows, it resets the timer. (need to think of a fair counter for trolls doing this in an enclosed space)
  
  
• A tally marker could track how many times people have captured others, or could be integrated into a more refined reputation system, as well as award XP)

Grab and Dump (GaD)

There is someone from another group at your base, but don't feel like gunning them down, or just don't seem worth looting, but you don't want them in the area either.

After handcuffing, a person with handcuff keys could instead opt to instead force the captured player to respawn, with gear and XP intact, to a remote spawn location (which should already be on maps anyway) that is somewhere between the capturing group's base (or current position if they lack a base), and the captured person's base (or practically clear on the other side of the map if they have no base).

I know these ideas still need work, but at least it puts in an incentive for people to tolerate being handcuffed for a short time, while not being pulled from gameplay for an undue amount of time. Though the second one is likely for servers where there are more friends than strangers, but I guess there is a thrill to be had making someone surrender, and then teleport them to the middle of nowhere again.

[Chevalier Dart]

I like the CLR feateure, but I don't get the other idea

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by The_Vikthor:

I like the CLR feateure, but I don't get the other idea

Thanks.

The second one was some exile feature that sounded good in my head.

Wanted to separate the two, since the CLR idea didn't seem to need such a drastic exit system, but I might just change the release part to do what the second idea does, just to make it convenient for everyone.

[Chevalier Dart]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

Originally posted by The_Vikthor:

I like the CLR feateure, but I don't get the other idea

Thanks.

The second one was some exile feature that sounded good in my head.

No worries it's happens whit me like always

[egarcia1360]

WARNING: LONG POST - TL;DR BELOW

While kind of interesting, one problem with this suggestion is that it turns social interactions into a game mechanic. For example, not being able to shoot someone while handcuffed doesn't make sense. They're your prisoner, and you want to make sure they follow your orders, or shoot them if they don't. The force looting thing makes it less fun. If you want to rob someone, make them give you their stuff by holding them at gunpoint.

Another major issue is that it's just too complicated. The game would need to check the handcuffer's inventory for a key, check what group each person is in, and keep track of a timer as well as proximity when the person is released, not to mention a tally of how many times someone handcuffed someone else. It seems like a whole minigame based around handcuffs.

I feel that the main problem with the suggestion as a whole is that you're more concerned with a character's life than a player's enjoyment of the game. All of these limits would help keep the person handcuffing from killing the handcuffed person, but it would actually be less fun for the latter, or maybe even both. Force looting robs the prisoner of not only their items, but something more important - control. Being able to decide yourself which items you give and which, if any, you hide, potentially risks death but also grants you the opportunity to not only save some items, but run away or fight back - and that's part of the fun! It's what keeps being handcuffed from making someone want to stop playing Unturned.

STORY TIME

So, this was the first time I tried a roleplay server; no roles, it was a simple no KOS server. I spawned in and got some loot from a nearby military convoy. Just a few minutes into my play session, a car drove by the spot where I was. I don't even think he had seen me. I was thinking, "hey, this isn't a regular PvP server, so maybe people are friendly!" So, of course, my dumb ass had to scream out, "HELLO!"
He had already passed by, but when he heard me, he stopped, got out of his car, and walked towards me. I was all giddy that someone had noticed me, but then he told me to put my hands up. Aw, crap.He then told me to drop everything, so I said, "ok, ok" into my mic, and slowly started dropping some stuff while trying to figure out a way to get out of this situation alive and with some stuff. I dropped the Sabertooth that I had found, and probably some melee weapon (since they were visible), but he didn't know that I had a Peacemaker unequipped in my inventory. When I was too slow to drop stuff, he told me to spin around 5 times. I was completely sure he was going to kill me after that last spin. So, I played dumb. "Wha... What? You want me to spin?"
"Yeah, spin around 5 times."
"Uhh.. Uh... Ok."
One...
Two...
My second or third rotation was only halfway, and then I quickly placed the Peacemaker into my hand, turned around, and unloaded as much of a mag as I had (14 bullets, to be exact). Of course, some missed, but it was enough to get him to run behind a tree for cover so he could heal. I then retreated to my own cover behind a car, so as to not die. I picked up my Sabertooth, which he hadn't even taken! Both behind cover, he said "You're gonna regret that," to which I replied, "Actually, I think you're gonna regret robbing me." I laid down a little bit of suppressing fire, and ran away into the hills, and then towards a lake. I healed myself with a dressing once I got in the water, and, if I remember correctly, ultimately went on to survive quite a bit. Gg.

STORYTIME (reimagined with handcuffs in current state)
After he tells me to put my hands up, he immediately handcuffs me. I drop some stuff, tell him that's all I have, and hopefully live to fight another day. If so, I run away, either after he releases me, or still handcuffed. In the latter case, I break out once I'm a fair distance away. Gg.

STORYTIME (this time reimagined with your suggested handcuffs)

He tells me to put my hands up, I do, he handcuffs me. Now I'm invulnerable to his attacks, so I could run away - oh wait, maybe a proximity sensor stops me since I'm getting away, and he shoots me. Or maybe he just takes things from my backpack while I stand there, helpless. Then I run away, and the handcuffs magically go away and teleport to my kidnapper. After I'm safe, I stop and check my inventory to see that all of my most valuable items are gone, and there's nothing I could've done. Bg. :(

TL;DR: The game is simpler and more fun if you let people interact amongst themselves instead of limiting social interactions to game mechanics. Handcuffs are great the way they are.

[Street Tacos]

This would be good

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by egarcia1360:

WARNING: LONG POST - TL;DR BELOW

<edited out due to space>

TL;DR: The game is simpler and more fun if you let people interact amongst themselves instead of limiting social interactions to game mechanics. Handcuffs are great the way they are.

I've done RPs before and I can easily tell from experience that handcuffs as they are just aren’t fun for the person wearing them.
(Taken out of context, this could sound really bad and not G rated lol)

The Unturned community in general just doesn’t have the patience to stop and work with handcuffs in such a well thought out way. Many of them are just out right inexperienced with RP, with no real guidance as to what is proper RP, and often make horrific actions that just gives the other person a really bad gaming experience; to the point where they just press the suicide button. Why press the suicide button? Because they are already well past the point of having lost most of their control, where they want to have fun, but can’t, since someone else wants to torture them even more. At least my CLR system puts an end to most people’s captivity in a way that keeps the captive person from losing everything on them and some XP while the person capturing someone else gets a few items out of it and bragging rights.

You have some pretty selective reality here when it comes to how much control is lost between the system we have now and the general idea I’m proposing.

You actually need a little bit of a limiting factor in the system to help untrain people from the typical FPS style of gameplay, as well as help push them in a direction that could be more fun. A mini game with capturing people would actually be fun and could reduce KoS behavior, and not require that much coding. The way you put it, you make it sound like it would be an utter chore, when in fact the distance calculations, the timers, and optional tally count are very basic and rudimentary features of coding. If done on paper, yeah, it would be annoying, but it isn’t, and can easily be put into a very simple computer function.

I care about player enjoyment, and keeping players alive and situations interesting helps with that enjoyment. If they die, they lose all their gear and a fraction of their total XP. So of course keeping captured players alive after such a humbling ordeal is important, why keep torturing them?

If you want an RP Unturned, you can still play around the CLR system. Just unlock them before shooting them in the head, or use modded handcuffs.

Speaking of which, again, I can’t see Nelson just adding this in right off the bat. I’d expect someone to make a mod of this and have people test it out themselves before being considered to be implemented in the game.

[Joe Urban]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

I'm getting kind of sick of these one-sided suggestions to 'fix' aspects of handcuffs, and thought I'd suggest stuff that actually could make using them worthwhile.

These likely should be tested in some mod, since I can't see Nelson just blindly trying them out in the vanilla version, despite how 'awesome and perfect' I think they are. (Well, I don't think that, but you get the joke)

Catch, Loot, and Release (CLR)

You get the drop on someone, and either through threats or from fear of dying, the other guy puts their hands up.

You handcuff them and these is the options and effects that come up.

• Handcuffed player is temporary a 'friendly' while handcuffed, and can't be shot or killed by you or others in your group. Obviously, if they break out of the cuffs or you unlock them at this point, the person losses those privileges.
  
  
• You are given the option to loot a hand full of items (like maybe 5 or so items) from their inventory, assuming you have handcuff keys (this is for continuity). Checking the inventory triggers the CLR feature. (and no, not the calcium, lime, and rust chemical based cleaner )
  
  
• After finished looting, the handcuffed person will be put on a timer and will be automatically released from the handcuff, with the handcuffs returning to the key holder.
  
  
• The released player will have a short 'friendly status' grace period where they can leave the area, with the grace period ending immediately if a weapon is readied or if they start punching back. If the captive person isn't moving away, the clock just counts down, but if a capturing group member follows, it resets the timer. (need to think of a fair counter for trolls doing this in an enclosed space)
  
  
• A tally marker could track how many times people have captured others, or could be integrated into a more refined reputation system, as well as award XP)

Grab and Dump (GaD)

There is someone from another group at your base, but don't feel like gunning them down, or just don't seem worth looting, but you don't want them in the area either.

After handcuffing, a person with handcuff keys could instead opt to instead force the captured player to respawn, with gear and XP intact, to a remote spawn location (which should already be on maps anyway) that is somewhere between the capturing group's base (or current position if they lack a base), and the captured person's base (or practically clear on the other side of the map if they have no base).

I know these ideas still need work, but at least it puts in an incentive for people to tolerate being handcuffed for a short time, while not being pulled from gameplay for an undue amount of time. Though the second one is likely for servers where there are more friends than strangers, but I guess there is a thrill to be had making someone surrender, and then teleport them to the middle of nowhere again.

You are thinking on how the caputred person feels not really on the enjoyment but i understand these ideas and agree with them to a certain extent,although looting 5 items is just plain stupid,if this was real life and you were getting robbed the dude would take whatever he wants and whatever amount,it all depends on inventory space.I feel that what should be done is that you can cuff a person,take their loot and let them go but dont leave him with guns,ive had to take people hostage and when they dropp their clothing ive seen 6 handguns and 2 rifles that they somehow manage to stuff into their alicepacks and clothing.(Keep in mind this was a normal sized alicepack).The timer seems about right,trolls are horrible and that would atleast help to some extent.

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by PCS StaffJamesDMR:

Originally posted by MechWarden:

<Long OP post omitted>

You are thinking on how the caputred person feels not really on the enjoyment but i understand these ideas and agree with them to a certain extent,although looting 5 items is just plain stupid,if this was real life and you were getting robbed the dude would take whatever he wants and whatever amount,it all depends on inventory space.I feel that what should be done is that you can cuff a person,take their loot and let them go but dont leave him with guns,ive had to take people hostage and when they dropp their clothing ive seen 6 handguns and 2 rifles that they somehow manage to stuff into their alicepacks and clothing.(Keep in mind this was a normal sized alicepack).The timer seems about right,trolls are horrible and that would atleast help to some extent.

Well, this isn't real life, and 5 was an arbitrary number of items and could be something different. I'm pretty sure taking several items would be bad enough for the captured person, and really, do you need more that a dozen items from the guy, when cherry picking the few good ones would be already satisfying? The more you take, the more resentful they could be.

The idea is to make the tough sale of convincing players to putting their hands up and surrender, or else none of the other ideas people are proposing will ever work, since no one else would want to be a part of it.

You have to ask yourself if you find it acceptable to surrender to someone else. If the answer is 'no', the idea will not work, since most everyone else will likely answer in the same way.

[Joe Urban]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

Originally posted by PCS StaffJamesDMR:

You are thinking on how the caputred person feels not really on the enjoyment but i understand these ideas and agree with them to a certain extent,although looting 5 items is just plain stupid,if this was real life and you were getting robbed the dude would take whatever he wants and whatever amount,it all depends on inventory space.I feel that what should be done is that you can cuff a person,take their loot and let them go but dont leave him with guns,ive had to take people hostage and when they dropp their clothing ive seen 6 handguns and 2 rifles that they somehow manage to stuff into their alicepacks and clothing.(Keep in mind this was a normal sized alicepack).The timer seems about right,trolls are horrible and that would atleast help to some extent.

Well, this isn't real life, and 5 was an arbitrary number of items and could be something different. I'm pretty sure taking several items would be bad enough for the captured person, and really, do you need more that a dozen items from the guy, when cherry picking the few good ones would be already satisfying? The more you take, the more resentful they could be.

The idea is to make the tough sale of convincing players to putting their hands up and surrender, or else none of the other ideas people are proposing will ever work, since no one else would want to be a part of it.

You have to ask yourself if you find it acceptable to surrender to someone else. If the answer is 'no', the idea will not work, since most everyone else will likely answer in the same way.

Well if i was surrounded i would say yes,keep in mind this is unturned and not everyone will be happy,this will never be a perfect game and this will never be a perfect world so think about that.Unturned is kill and loot and if the case is that we cant loot a prisoner we can just kill them,they lose more though.Its easier to take the weapons and they can keep the large amount of skills they worked for but if the case is that we can only do something very limited then i would just shoot and pick everything up.

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by PCS StaffJamesDMR:

Originally posted by MechWarden:

Well, this isn't real life, and 5 was an arbitrary number of items and could be something different. I'm pretty sure taking several items would be bad enough for the captured person, and really, do you need more that a dozen items from the guy, when cherry picking the few good ones would be already satisfying? The more you take, the more resentful they could be.

The idea is to make the tough sale of convincing players to putting their hands up and surrender, or else none of the other ideas people are proposing will ever work, since no one else would want to be a part of it.

You have to ask yourself if you find it acceptable to surrender to someone else. If the answer is 'no', the idea will not work, since most everyone else will likely answer in the same way.

Well if i was surrounded i would say yes,keep in mind this is unturned and not everyone will be happy,this will never be a perfect game and this will never be a perfect world so think about that.Unturned is kill and loot and if the case is that we cant loot a prisoner we can just kill them,they lose more though.Its easier to take the weapons and they can keep the large amount of skills they worked for but if the case is that we can only do something very limited then i would just shoot and pick everything up.

I keep a lot of things in mind, and tend to think of things like an engineer would. There is no 'perfect' in engineering, only 'good enough' within specifications. Working towards some abstract theoretical perfection too much when trying to design something practical wastes time and effort towards making something that works good enough in a satisfactory way. Lack of 'perfection', however it is arbitrarily (or imperfectly) defined, is something I'm very familiar with.

If I was surrounded, and didn't have any incentive to give up, like how it is currently, I'd go out guns a blazing and do as much damage as possible, since there is no incentive, logically or emotionally, to giving up.

If there was an incentive towards giving up, like with some system that limits damages and temptation towards abuse, I would; and would likely do the same in kind in capturing and releasing others as well.

My system is far from perfect, but it is an idea, with several variables that can be changed. The arbitrary 5 item limit is a suggestion, and would hope people don't focus too much on how wrong it is, and focus more on what would be the correct number to use.

[Joe Urban]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

Originally posted by PCS StaffJamesDMR:

Well if i was surrounded i would say yes,keep in mind this is unturned and not everyone will be happy,this will never be a perfect game and this will never be a perfect world so think about that.Unturned is kill and loot and if the case is that we cant loot a prisoner we can just kill them,they lose more though.Its easier to take the weapons and they can keep the large amount of skills they worked for but if the case is that we can only do something very limited then i would just shoot and pick everything up.

I keep a lot of things in mind, and tend to think of things like an engineer would. There is no 'perfect' in engineering, only 'good enough' within specifications. Working towards some abstract theoretical perfection too much when trying to design something practical wastes time and effort towards making something that works good enough in a satisfactory way. Lack of 'perfection', however it is arbitrarily (or imperfectly) defined, is something I'm very familiar with.

If I was surrounded, and didn't have any incentive to give up, like how it is currently, I'd go out guns a blazing and do as much damage as possible, since there is no incentive, logically or emotionally, to giving up.

If there was an incentive towards giving up, like with some system that limits damages and temptation towards abuse, I would; and would likely do the same in kind in capturing and releasing others as well.

My system is far from perfect, but it is an idea, with several variables that can be changed. The arbitrary 5 item limit is a suggestion, and would hope people don't focus too much on how wrong it is, and focus more on what would be the correct number to use.

You have a point but consider this,the number wont always be good because someone out there will find a loop hole and there goes all of the planning.With wont always be good i mean someone will figure out that if they have 1 gun more than the limit they will have an advantage.

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by PCS StaffJamesDMR:

Originally posted by MechWarden:

I keep a lot of things in mind, and tend to think of things like an engineer would. There is no 'perfect' in engineering, only 'good enough' within specifications. Working towards some abstract theoretical perfection too much when trying to design something practical wastes time and effort towards making something that works good enough in a satisfactory way. Lack of 'perfection', however it is arbitrarily (or imperfectly) defined, is something I'm very familiar with.

If I was surrounded, and didn't have any incentive to give up, like how it is currently, I'd go out guns a blazing and do as much damage as possible, since there is no incentive, logically or emotionally, to giving up.

If there was an incentive towards giving up, like with some system that limits damages and temptation towards abuse, I would; and would likely do the same in kind in capturing and releasing others as well.

My system is far from perfect, but it is an idea, with several variables that can be changed. The arbitrary 5 item limit is a suggestion, and would hope people don't focus too much on how wrong it is, and focus more on what would be the correct number to use.

You have a point but consider this,the number wont always be good because someone out there will find a loop hole and there goes all of the planning.With wont always be good i mean someone will figure out that if they have 1 gun more than the limit they will have an advantage.

Why are you wanting it to always be perfect? (right after you go on your 'game will never be perfect' statement) If the item limit is good enough for most situations (whatever that value maybe), then it is way better than what is currently being used. This isn't an all or nothing situation. So what if the guy you let loose has one gun left? You looted the top items he had. Why would it make a difference if they have a weapon left if there is a grace period timer that incentives the captured guy to run away and hide, and not attack back right away... and likely die in the process... which is the total opposite of what they are trying to do.

You are focusing on exactly what I told you not to focus on, an not thinking about what you told me to keep in mind. ... unless I'm reading things totally wrong.

[Я| Armaros]

I like this... An actual incentive to handcuff people, and leave them with what you dont want, instead of it going to waste...

While it surely won't cut down KoS, it's a viable and more morally pleasing alternative, especially for RPing...

Although the 5 item limit is a bit small, makbe have it on a 'per slot unit basis (20 slot units to take total)' or possibly even a timer (15 seconds beginning on capture start), it can work...

For the grace period, make it so the captured and the capturer can't equip weapons within a time or distance of eachother (get 350m away from him, or wait 15 seconds within 200m, 25 seconds within 100m)

It's a rough concept, but there's a reason the saying is "diamonds in the rough"

+1

[MechWarden]

Originally posted by Я| 101gamer101:

I like this... An actual incentive to handcuff people, and leave them with what you dont want, instead of it going to waste...

While it surely won't cut down KoS, it's a viable and more morally pleasing alternative, especially for RPing...

Although the 5 item limit is a bit small, makbe have it on a 'per slot unit basis (20 slot units to take total)' or possibly even a timer (15 seconds beginning on capture start), it can work...

For the grace period, make it so the captured and the capturer can't equip weapons within a time or distance of eachother (get 350m away from him, or wait 15 seconds within 200m, 25 seconds within 100m)

It's a rough concept, but there's a reason the saying is "diamonds in the rough"

+1

I kind of like the timer limit, since it gets things moving and gives the option of just not taking anything, which I'm sure some captives would like. Much of the dislike of handcuffs is 'time wasted' doing nothing.

I used 5 items as an example, since it didn't seem as if it was so much to punitively hurt a player, but getting a hand full of your best times taken still stings quite a bit. But hey, you are still a live, with no XP lost, and will likely respect the other person's wishes, since he could have killed them and looted them entirely.

I could have picked 4 or even 8 or 15 as the item limit, but the idea was to keep it limited so to not take up too much time looting and to prevent bitter feeling of still being totally robbed. I don't care what number it is, just as long it isn't like some ridiculous amount.
...
But one thing has me wondering... looting worn gear. Talking an Alice Pack, and forcing items to drop, would be quite the exploit. I guess a quick swap would have to be done, since that kind of exploit wouldn't go well.

The grace period puts the captive in the same state as a friendly group member, meaning no 'friendly fire' can be done. Kind of unrealistic, but there needs to be something to keep people from doing immature 'prisoner shooting'.

Honestly, instead of the complex grace period, where no one can hurt eachother, and the captive could void it early by trying to attack back, and all that crap, I think the GAD (Grab and Dump) idea should be tacked onto the CLR (Capture, Loot, Release). You capture, you get loot, and they are safely dumped, somewhere... easy-peasy no time wasted, people are back in the action, no drama, no trolling.

[*****punkz]

Originally posted by MechWarden:

Originally posted by The_Vikthor:

I like the CLR feateure, but I don't get the other idea

Thanks.

The second one was some exile feature that sounded good in my head.

Wanted to separate the two, since the CLR idea didn't seem to need such a drastic exit system, but I might just change the release part to do what the second idea does, just to make it convenient for everyone.

This is stupied utterly stupied