Nerf the PDW

[yarrrr]

It is time

This monstrosity is left untouched since a few years ago.

I wouldn't say nerf it into oblivion to make it unusable, but make it balanced enough so that it doesn't make other (Military?) carbines to be inferior in most ways. Its core factors are:

- 40 player damage (Equivalent to an assault rifle, highest of all carbines)
- Uses military ammunition (30/100 ammo, shared with military assault rifles, highest of all carbines)
- Low hip/aim spread (The best of all carbines)
- 0.4 durability aka 40% chance to degrade (Second best of all carbines behind Peacemaker)
- No bullet drop penalty for a silenced weapon (Unlike the Matamorez)

Essentially it's a pocket assault rifle but with shorter range. There is literally no significant downside when compared with other carbines (Except 1 less tick rate but the damage already compensates it).

I suggest nerfing one of the the core factors I listed above. I recommend the changes here (Not all should be considered):
- 35 player damage
- Uses unique low-calibre PDW magazine with 30 rounds (Reference to its .300 AAC Blackout ammunition in real life)
- 0.6 durability/60% chance to degrade
- Increased bullet drop (And maybe reduce range to 100m)

[[4BRS] OakNacht]

Looks fair. Might actually see some other weapons being used.

[Marcos deneiva]

Indeed, the honeybadger was always the most powerful secondary. People say that rarity compensates for it but it doesn't. Even more since 90% of the servers turned into kit/pvp servers, these should have weight in balancing.

[m4djoker]

This is how I see it:



-It has only 125 m range, any other rifle have way more.

-Needs a long time to be equipped do to the animation thingy.

-It also makes a loading sound each time you equip it.

-If you try a horde beacon, it has the same chances of being dropped as the timberwolf or the grizzly, and those are way more powerfull, especially in a game where spotting ppl is a very easy thing to do.

-Again if we want to speak of the horde beacon, the fact that it provides raiding gear so easly poses the PDW "problem" in the background, if not even in the back-background since having bases being raided in such an easy way basically defeats half of the games purpose (that is building btw).

-If close range cqc battles in towns is what you fear, third person combined with a bluntforce is a way more effective method then this submachinegun.

-Some maps don't even spawn it in (unless you do the horde beacon but then, read above)

-It's very very rare to find. Maybe medium maps give more chances of finding it but those maps are not focusing on survival, but more on pvp. Large maps don't really provide an easy access to the PDW.

-You need some guns to be better then others, or we could just play with 1 single gun at this point, if a 360 degrees balanced gameplay is what you're looking for.

-Pirates shouldn't even use submachine guns, that would mean getting out of character, so what do you worry about.

[yarrrr]

Originally posted by m4djoker:

This is how I see it:



-It has only 125 m range, any other rifle have way more.

-Needs a long time to be equipped do to the animation thingy.

-It also makes a loading sound each time you equip it.

-If you try a horde beacon, it has the same chances of being dropped as the timberwolf or the grizzly, and those are way more powerfull, especially in a game where spotting ppl is a very easy thing to do.

-Again if we want to speak of the horde beacon, the fact that it provides raiding gear so easly poses the PDW "problem" in the background, if not even in the back-background since having bases being raided in such an easy way basically defeats half of the games purpose (that is building btw).

-If close range cqc battles in towns is what you fear, third person combined with a bluntforce is a way more effective method then this submachinegun.

-Some maps don't even spawn it in (unless you do the horde beacon but then, read above)

-It's very very rare to find. Maybe medium maps give more chances of finding it but those maps are not focusing on survival, but more on pvp. Large maps don't really provide an easy access to the PDW.

-You need some guns to be better then others, or we could just play with 1 single gun at this point, if a 360 degrees balanced gameplay is what you're looking for.

-Pirates shouldn't even use submachine guns, that would mean getting out of character, so what do you worry about.

- I'm talking about a carbine that can be equiped as a secondary. I'm using Assault Rifles as a comparison to show how powerful this gun is, but I'm balancing it so other carbines has atleast some form of upside against it
- Equip speed is a very minor problem (I don't think it's very slow)
- The time you equip it means you're about to fire it, and most of the time you would have it ready before you arrive near enemy players
- While rarity tones down how many people can get a hold on it, it doesn't stop the the fact that military gear is generally easilly found in alot of locations where anyone can have access to it.
- Again I'm not ranking problems to neglect 'lesser' problems. Basically hiding terrible truths
- Bluntforce may be a CQC champion but again, is it a secondary? No, you sacrifice your long range option to be better at close quarters. Honeybadger is more versatile and you can equip it along with a rifle, mastering all effective ranges.
- More than half of the official maps contain this beast. But again, I'm not putting rarity/acquisition into this case
- Same as above, rarity is a bad way to balance weapons
- Yes there's always a gun that's better at certain things in each weapon type, but a gun that outclasses all carbines in the most significant ways? I don't think so.

[Genestic12]

Originally posted by Marcos deneiva:

Indeed, the honeybadger was always the most powerful secondary. People say that rarity compensates for it but it doesn't. Even more since 90% of the servers turned into kit/pvp servers, these should have weight in balancing.

If rarity doesn't compensate for it being 'powerful' because kit/pvp servers have nothing to do with spawn chances anyway, then you should be blaming those kit/pvp servers, not the gun.

[Colonel Crossfire]

Eh. I've never really seen it as overpowered in the context on vanilla survival, but in this world of rocket and kit pvp. Hell yes, nerf that ♥♥♥♥.

[m4djoker]

Never denied that its a strong secondary, even the strongest, but its not an op endgame final weapon of mass destruction, its just... a very good gun.
You will still die if someone manages to shot you in the head twice so it doesnt make u invincible.

For those who bring in the "kits servers" issue, well thats their problem. Nelson nearly never tweaked something becouse modded/rocket servers made a game mechanic op by abusing commands, and if he starts now, then there will be a very long list of things that must follow.

All the game features was and are based on the vanilla game, and atm the PDW does not brake anything so if the issue is "custom servers", well thats exclusevly their problem.

He also said in the sdg forums that he kinda wants to stop the tweaks about guns cus he thinks that they are good enough.
And I think the same.

[yarrrr]

Originally posted by m4djoker:

Never denied that its a strong secondary, even the strongest, but its not an op endgame final weapon of mass destruction, its just... a very good gun.
You will still die if someone manages to shot you in the head twice so it doesnt make u invincible.

For those who bring in the "kits servers" issue, well thats their problem. Nelson nearly never tweaked something becouse modded/rocket servers made a game mechanic op by abusing commands, and if he starts now, then there will be a very long list of things that must follow.

All the game features was and are based on the vanilla game, and atm the PDW does not brake anything so if the issue is "custom servers", well thats exclusevly their problem.

He also said in the sdg forums that he kinda wants to stop the tweaks about guns cus he thinks that they are good enough.
And I think the same.

Well PDW gained considerate amount of discussion and he will do something about it, increased bullet drop being the #1 nerf he may possibly do

[[4BRS] OakNacht]

Originally posted by Yarrrr:

Originally posted by m4djoker:

Never denied that its a strong secondary, even the strongest, but its not an op endgame final weapon of mass destruction, its just... a very good gun.
You will still die if someone manages to shot you in the head twice so it doesnt make u invincible.

For those who bring in the "kits servers" issue, well thats their problem. Nelson nearly never tweaked something becouse modded/rocket servers made a game mechanic op by abusing commands, and if he starts now, then there will be a very long list of things that must follow.

All the game features was and are based on the vanilla game, and atm the PDW does not brake anything so if the issue is "custom servers", well thats exclusevly their problem.

He also said in the sdg forums that he kinda wants to stop the tweaks about guns cus he thinks that they are good enough.
And I think the same.

Well PDW gained considerate amount of discussion and he will do something about it, increased bullet drop being the #1 nerf he may possibly do

Most of the time people use this weapon it's at less than 50 meters. Bullet drop really isn't in play at that point.

Damage, capacity, firerate, and recoil are things that really matter at that range. PDW has all of that. Great damage, High magazine potential, High firerate, and well...recoil at 50m (best case scenario) isn't an issue with this weapon.

[yarrrr]

Originally posted by 4BRS OakNacht:

Originally posted by Yarrrr:

Well PDW gained considerate amount of discussion and he will do something about it, increased bullet drop being the #1 nerf he may possibly do

Most of the time people use this weapon it's at less than 50 meters. Bullet drop really isn't in play at that point.

Damage, capacity, firerate, and recoil are things that really matter at that range. PDW has all of that. Great damage, High magazine potential, High firerate, and well...recoil at 50m (best case scenario) isn't an issue with this weapon.

True

That's why I suggested the other nerfs

[Gummi]

This seems fair. I suggested in one of my recent posts to possibly make the recoil a little more uncontrollable. As in more horizontal variation between each shot. But these seem fair

[Gummi]

WE HAVE BEEN HEARD

[Genestic12]

Originally posted by Gummi:

WE HAVE BEEN HEARD

yep

[[4BRS] OakNacht]

Originally posted by Genestic12:

Originally posted by Gummi:

WE HAVE BEEN HEARD

yep

Granted most gunfights happen at a range where bullet drop really isn't in play. Welp, it's a start at least.