How to counter M203 grenade launcher?

[Romka94]

Can somebody explain how GRM player can counter american soldiers with their wunderwaffe- under-barrel grenade launchers? Its very accurate, and kills infantry and technicals with 1 shot and available from the start.

[Enji or Not]

I like keeping my distance once I have higher-tier troops. That works quite well because they are still able to hit the enemies, but are not as easy to hit by grenadiers, unless they came closer. Coming closer can kill them.

[Romka94]

Originally posted by Deputy Grant:

I like keeping my distance once I have higher-tier troops. That works quite well because they are still able to hit the enemies, but are not as easy to hit by grenadiers, unless they came closer. Coming closer can kill them.

But enemy is usually buying grenade launchers from the start when i can buy only cheap infantry. When more expensive infantry is available game is already lost, enemy controls battlefield.

[eching]

Really the US shouldn't be the only side with grenadiers... the GRM should also have access to them. The Russian GP-25 and GP-30 are functionally the same as M203s. A typical Russian rifle squad would often have at least one of these, so not like they're rare.

Giving both sides grenade launchers would help even out the fights.

[Romka94]

Originally posted by eching:

Really the US shouldn't be the only side with grenadiers... the GRM should also have access to them. The Russian GP-25 and GP-30 are functionally the same as M203s. A typical Russian rifle squad would often have at least one of these, so not like they're rare.

Giving both sides grenade launchers would help even out the fights.

Agree, but with current accuracy, i think, it will be war of grenade launchers only. I think that this weapon must have lesser accuracy or be more expensive. But this is still early access, so maybe developers will change it before release...

[eching]

Originally posted by Romka94:

Agree, but with current accuracy, i think, it will be war of grenade launchers only. I think that this weapon must have lesser accuracy or be more expensive. But this is still early access, so maybe developers will change it before release...

I think the problem is that you can somehow get a 3 man grenadier team with 2 M203s. This allows for a lot of grenadiers on the battlefield. At most you should have to call in a whole rifle squad to get 1-2 grenadiers.

In MoW the British squad leader got rifle grenades, but it wasn't as much a problem because there was just one of them for the entire squad.

[Romka94]

Originally posted by eching:

Originally posted by Romka94:

Agree, but with current accuracy, i think, it will be war of grenade launchers only. I think that this weapon must have lesser accuracy or be more expensive. But this is still early access, so maybe developers will change it before release...

I think the problem is that you can somehow get a 3 man grenadier team with 2 M203s. This allows for a lot of grenadiers on the battlefield. At most you should have to call in a whole rifle squad to get 1-2 grenadiers.

In MoW the British squad leader got rifle grenades, but it wasn't as much a problem because there was just one of them for the entire squad.

I think that british rifle grenadier from MOWAS2 have bigger dispersion of hits and because of that it is not overpowered. Also agree that 2 grenadiers is too much for 1 squad.

[eching]

Originally posted by Romka94:

I think that british rifle grenadier from MOWAS2 have bigger dispersion of hits and because of that it is not overpowered. Also agree that 2 grenadiers is too much for 1 squad.

To me the grenade accuracy in CTA isn't that bad against infantry. Sure, there have been times when a 40mm grenade has managed to land in the middle of a squad, but far more often it lands and misses.

The only thing that seems especially vulnerable to 40mm grenades are my technicals. Simply because they're larger targets so the lack of accuracy doesn't matter. And that they lack any armour whatsoever so they seem especially prone to exploding.

Not sure how to balance that really. If you make grenades any less accurate then they are much less useful against infantry. If you armour technicals then they can be far too strong against other targets.

[Romka94]

Originally posted by eching:

Originally posted by Romka94:

I think that british rifle grenadier from MOWAS2 have bigger dispersion of hits and because of that it is not overpowered. Also agree that 2 grenadiers is too much for 1 squad.

To me the grenade accuracy in CTA isn't that bad against infantry. Sure, there have been times when a 40mm grenade has managed to land in the middle of a squad, but far more often it lands and misses.

The only thing that seems especially vulnerable to 40mm grenades are my technicals. Simply because they're larger targets so the lack of accuracy doesn't matter. And that they lack any armour whatsoever so they seem especially prone to exploding.

Not sure how to balance that really. If you make grenades any less accurate then they are much less useful against infantry. If you armour technicals then they can be far too strong against other targets.

For 135 mp i think they must be much less useful against infantry, it is just slightly more than cost of GRM militia squad, but much more useful. With current characteristics i think grenade launcher squad must be 2-3 times more expensive - GRM sniper costs 375 mp and is less useful than US grenade launcher, mortar costs around 500 mp and is incapable of hitting anything.

[SAUSAGESTAB]

Like snipers, the M203 Grenade Launchers plays the role of stalemate breakers, when two teams with established defensive lines, getting Grenade Launchers, Snipers, Elite Marksmen etc are all units which specialize in winning those stalemates, as they can near-guarantee immediate kills in sustained shootouts.

For M203 Grenadiers, the best way to handle them is to play very aggressively and spread out, their slow reload times and mediocre accuracy, will allow infantry to move up close and wiping out the grenadiers. If your opponent prones their grenadier behind cover, throw some grenades to dislodge them from their positions, allowing other infantry to shoot them as they move away from the grenade.

What you don't want to do against Grenadiers is passively or defensively play. Playing aggressively is key to defeating these foes. Remember that your opponent has spent MP on Grenadiers so their troop numbers would normally be less than yours (provided you have only bought infantry and are GRM), should allow you to have the upperhand in numbers, just push smart, push fast, spread out and a Grenadier team shouldn't cause too much trouble.

[Romka94]

Originally posted by SAUSAGESTAB:

Like snipers, the M203 Grenade Launchers plays the role of stalemate breakers, when two teams with established defensive lines, getting Grenade Launchers, Snipers, Elite Marksmen etc are all units which specialize in winning those stalemates, as they can near-guarantee immediate kills in sustained shootouts.

For M203 Grenadiers, the best way to handle them is to play very aggressively and spread out, their slow reload times and mediocre accuracy, will allow infantry to move up close and wiping out the grenadiers. If your opponent prones their grenadier behind cover, throw some grenades to dislodge them from their positions, allowing other infantry to shoot them as they move away from the grenade.

What you don't want to do against Grenadiers is passively or defensively play. Playing aggressively is key to defeating these foes. Remember that your opponent has spent MP on Grenadiers so their troop numbers would normally be less than yours (provided you have only bought infantry and are GRM), should allow you to have the upperhand in numbers, just push smart, push fast, spread out and a Grenadier team shouldn't cause too much trouble.

I probably dont have enough experience, but i am not sure that this will work. You tested this way of countering grenade launchers in game or just assuming that this works?

[eching]

Originally posted by SAUSAGESTAB:

Like snipers, the M203 Grenade Launchers plays the role of stalemate breakers, when two teams with established defensive lines, getting Grenade Launchers, Snipers, Elite Marksmen etc are all units which specialize in winning those stalemates, as they can near-guarantee immediate kills in sustained shootouts.

There are some differences between snipers/DMs and grenadiers:
1) Both sides get snipers, but only one side gets grenadiers.
2) Snipers are generally ineffective against vehicles, while grenadiers can one-shot light vehicles.
3) Snipers are direct-fire units, meaning that they are vulnerable. Grenadiers are indirect-fire, meaning that they can shoot from behind cover.

Grenadiers are fairly powerful early game against light vehicles... pretty much like an RPG except that you get many more shots, two shooters, and can be fired from behind cover. This makes them fairly effective in situations that are not just trench warfare... an offensive technical rush can be stopped reasonably easily with grenadiers.

[SAUSAGESTAB]

Originally posted by Romka94:

I probably dont have enough experience, but i am not sure that this will work. You tested this way of countering grenade launchers in game or just assuming that this works?

I'm sure its your own inexperience, I've provided a reliable strategy to handle Grenadiers from my own experience, and I'm pretty sure I play at a higher level than you, being one of the best players in Call to Arms. Weather or not you can pull off the strategy is entirely up to you.

Originally posted by eching:

There are some differences between snipers/DMs and grenadiers:
1) Both sides get snipers, but only one side gets grenadiers.
2) Snipers are generally ineffective against vehicles, while grenadiers can one-shot light vehicles.
3) Snipers are direct-fire units, meaning that they are vulnerable. Grenadiers are indirect-fire, meaning that they can shoot from behind cover.

Grenadiers are fairly powerful early game against light vehicles... pretty much like an RPG except that you get many more shots, two shooters, and can be fired from behind cover. This makes them fairly effective in situations that are not just trench warfare... an offensive technical rush can be stopped reasonably easily with grenadiers.

I don't know what brought this on, but their roles as Stalemate breakers are still the same, Grenadier gains indirect fire and protection from light vehicles with the sacrifice or range, accuracy and attackspeed, while Snipers with nearly every aimed shot is a gaurantee kill, when a sniper is placed in a behind a defensive line, they can cause a lot of consistent damage at a long range. Overall both snipers and grenadiers excels in punishing passive plays, where players are not willing to break out of the defensive line molds.

[eching]

Originally posted by SAUSAGESTAB:

Overall both snipers and grenadiers excels in punishing passive plays, where players are not willing to break out of the defensive line molds.

So if I try to aggressively rush the enemy with a technical or two that are instantly destroyed by grenadiers that my technicals had no chance to fire upon, that falls under... what category of punishing defensive players?

Snipers and grenadiers are two completely different things when it comes to light vehicles. Rushing snipers with technicals is an easy way to kill snipers... but rushing grenadiers with technicals makes for very dead technicals.

[SAUSAGESTAB]

You do know you can rush without technicals, infantry pushes are rather effective.

[Stenk]

Best counter tactic i got for early grenade launchers is flanking or rushing, assuming you get to their positions with a spreaded group.