Unlimited AI spawns in Conquest

[King of Mars]

As the title says. It's horribly unfair to give the AI infinite spawns where they keep calling in infantry, light-vehicles, and tanks while the player is limited to 5 sets of reinforcements and that's it. In a game mode designed around running the enemy out of resources, the entire game dynamic breaks when one side ignores the rules. The AI should follow the same rules the player does, and have to manage their own resources, and when all they're units get killed off they get no more reinforcements.

Maybe the devs just don't care, but surely there has to be a mod to fix this?

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

AI are not unlimited. They get around 180-300 infantry and 20-30 vehicles. IDK if its higher on heroic, but on hard thats how much I typically faced.

Only way to fix it would be to increase the amount the player can stuff into each reinforcing platoon.

[headfellow]

This so much this. Idk if it was intentional, but OMG. You as the player will be very limited in resources however the ai seems to have an endless supply of men like the soviet union in ww2. In a way its a good battle of attrition, but currently its just too much. If you've taken alot of losses taking a point. (because after a few battles the ai becomes OP if you don't research fast.) The ai will eventually mop you, even if your cutting them down as they spawn, they have more men then you have bullets.

[T-Bone Biggins]

Originally posted by headfellow:

This so much this. Idk if it was intentional, but OMG. You as the player will be very limited in resources however the ai seems to have an endless supply of men like the soviet union in ww2. In a way its a good battle of attrition, but currently its just too much. If you've taken alot of losses taking a point. (because after a few battles the ai becomes OP if you don't research fast.) The ai will eventually mop you, even if your cutting them down as they spawn, they have more men then you have bullets.

I don't know why the game cannot be like singleplayer missions in Assault Squad 2? You capture a point, it gives you resources. Spend those resources on more units, if you lose too many in too short of a time you could lose a lot of ground or the entire mission. If you slowly build up a large force over time you would have an advantage. Very simple and it works.

Here we have just whatever platoons you start with, and that is it. It wouldn't be so bad if the enemy played by the same rules but they don't, the AI spawns in wave after wave of equivalent units to yours.

[m0rt84]

It's a really bad design, and I already gave up on trying to play that mode anymore, it has so many issues, where the more difficulty you add to it, just gets worse and worse, since AI cheats really hard. Giving a couple of examples:

- AI units seem to do proper priority targetting, while ours seem to be stupid. I had a Stryker in a vehicle bunker with perfect positioning to kill any enemy vehicles that would show up, while supported by a soldiers to the flanks...there was absolutely no way whatsoever that any assault against that position would succeed. But then the Stryker was destroyed, because although a Tow truck just appeared, it kept firing at infantry, and just stood there getting killed. This happens a lot, where you place your units in great defensive spots, and they either miss every single shot, or just allow the enemy to get close and kill them with grenades;

- the more missions you do, the more impossible the battles become, especially when enemy has inifinte troops. You might say "oh, they only have 200 infantry and 30 vehicles", but when that happens at a time that you have 30 infantry and 2 vehicle at most, it seems as infinite. I've had battles where I lost because I ran out of bullets. In old Assault Squad games, you could just get bullets and weapons from the dead enemy, but because the enemy doesn't stop coming here, you never get a reprieve to do that;

- maps are very poorly balanced for this mode. There are maps where enemy already is in a unbreakable defensive position, shooting at your units right out of the gate...but here's the thing, when enemy units spawn, they're invincible for a little bit, but yours are not!

The mode literally seems as something just meshed up together to create aditional content, using random skirmish maps, with an AI that's already broken and become vastly OP in a few missions.

[T-Bone Biggins]

Originally posted by m0rt84:

The mode literally seems as something just meshed up together to create aditional content, using random skirmish maps, with an AI that's already broken and become vastly OP in a few missions.

It really wouldn't take much work to fix this. Make the AI have a limited deck same as the player. That is all. The majority of the problems go away, your attempts at attrition actually mean something in each battle.

Or better yet take that idea in my last post, make it where you held points, they generate income, that income is used to buy more troops. Lose too many troops or don't hold enough of the map and you fall behind. Simple, simple, simple, take notes from the first Dawn of War game. It's the basics of an RTS. This is not a simulation by a long shot so I assume we are going for an RTS here.

The messed up AI for your soldiers is really an issue. They are feckless, an entire squad in cover will get wiped by 2 enemy soldiers strolling through a field. Doesn't matter if it is lower-tier soldiers going against a pair of Rangers/SEALs, the basics of how cover and gunfire work shouldn't let this happen. Your AI laying prone and being useless, if that is a bug it needs to be fixed. If it is an attempt at simulating suppression, it sucks, it's hurting the game, get rid of it.

[King of Mars]

Originally posted by T-Bone Biggins:

It really wouldn't take much work to fix this. Make the AI have a limited deck same as the player. That is all. The majority of the problems go away, your attempts at attrition actually mean something in each battle.

This is all I ask, for it to just be fair.

[King of Mars]

Originally posted by Lord-Knight Fandragon:

AI are not unlimited. They get around 180-300 infantry and 20-30 vehicles.

...How is that fair for the player?

[Tallran]

Originally posted by Joe Biden Gaming:

Originally posted by Lord-Knight Fandragon:

AI are not unlimited. They get around 180-300 infantry and 20-30 vehicles.

...How is that fair for the player?

The AI is braindead, infants have more tactical knowledge. Its tactics consist of "Take point A/B/C" and "move on to Point A/B/C".
The AI getting tons of units is supposed to be the challenge.

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Originally posted by m0rt84:

- AI units seem to do proper priority targetting, while ours seem to be stupid. I had a Stryker in a vehicle bunker with perfect positioning to kill any enemy vehicles that would show up, while supported by a soldiers to the flanks...there was absolutely no way whatsoever that any assault against that position would succeed. But then the Stryker was destroyed, because although a Tow truck just appeared, it kept firing at infantry, and just stood there getting killed. This happens a lot, where you place your units in great defensive spots, and they either miss every single shot, or just allow the enemy to get close and kill them with grenades;

- the more missions you do, the more impossible the battles become, especially when enemy has inifinte troops. You might say "oh, they only have 200 infantry and 30 vehicles", but when that happens at a time that you have 30 infantry and 2 vehicle at most, it seems as infinite. I've had battles where I lost because I ran out of bullets. In old Assault Squad games, you could just get bullets and weapons from the dead enemy, but because the enemy doesn't stop coming here, you never get a reprieve to do that;

- maps are very poorly balanced for this mode. There are maps where enemy already is in a unbreakable defensive position, shooting at your units right out of the gate...but here's the thing, when enemy units spawn, they're invincible for a little bit, but yours are not!

The mode literally seems as something just meshed up together to create aditional content, using random skirmish maps, with an AI that's already broken and become vastly OP in a few missions.

Absolutely. Conquest is a case of forcing a PVP game mode onto the AI, then over buffing them with sheer numbers and not nearly enough time, because 'AI".....

I dont see how players can even begin to win standard conquest mode in this game. Your timer runs out long before you are even in any kind of position to take anything. Because they use default PVP maps, the cover and approaches to the caps dont have nearly enough protection. You can "try" to set up engineers and sandbags, but that takes 12 seconds per sand bag, so thats alot of wasted time, and thats if your engis dont die in the process. The AI starting all hunkered down and dug in, along with more reinforcements does make it impossible.

Believe me, im with you 100% on the 200-300 feeling infinite, because, oh, it definitely does. Im just saying, it is not actually infinite. If somehow you can come up with a plan that involves being able to actually out last them, they do end....eventually.

As for them being god mode for awhile, yeah thats also stupid. I personally set that to 5s, makes that aspect way better overall. You cant spawn camp them as easy, but they also cant spawn camp and kill you quite so bad. By default, that spawning god mode is 10....fking.....seconds....... Once they get vehicles and your still on those early maps, they are driving tanks right up your nose and you cant do anything about it because its still in god mode. Or the Grad-P.........they spawn those and just nuke your whole army.

What conquest really needs it its own custom maps.

[T-Bone Biggins]

Originally posted by Lord-Knight Fandragon:

What conquest really needs it its own custom maps.

Larger maps like the singleplayer missions in MOW:AS2 would help. The AI can put up a decent fight in the older prior game in the series because it has more room to maneuver and will spawn in more stuff, just not at the batsh!t crazy rate like we have right now with so many units getting dumped in firing range of yours.

Also the stupid immunity from damage when they spawn, that should be zero. Nada, not even 5 seconds. If they get to spawn in 300+ units then I get to mow them down as they drop before they can line up anti-tank missiles and RPG's and fire them with impunity at my more expensive units.

[King of Mars]

Originally posted by Tallran:

The AI is braindead

So is your AI when you aren't in direct control mode. I've had helicopters fire every last shot into an APC without doing anything when left alone for 5 seconds to move a squad. I've had my own APCs literally sit there and not shoot at enemy soldiers walking right up to it. I've had infantry fail to pop out of cover and engage troops right in front of them unless explicitly told to attack. (They were set to fire at will too) I've had max veterancy tanks miss every single shot on an enemy tank when not in direct control mode while the enemy tank hits every last shot and destroys my modern MBT with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ upgraded WW2 armor. Keep in mind I play on hardcore realism mode always.

It's a fun concept for a mode ruined by the rules that only apply to you while the AI doesn't have any of your mechanics and just floods tanks and squads in every 5 seconds, literally every 5 seconds. Plus the horrendous AI you have to deal with, which means if you aren't micromanaging your squad of braindead morons, they'll get themselves killed in seconds to anything that walks up to them.

This is completely counter to the way regular skirmish works from what I've seen as well. Where a well placed squad of my high rank infantry can hold down a position from anything up to a fully armored assault or helicopter strafe. They actually engage units and take cover when light vehicles roll up, popping out to fire anti-tank weapons like they actually know how to do their job.

Again, I would be fine if all they did was give the AI in conquest mode the same rules as you. Limited spawns. Then it becomes a test of genuine unit management and efficiency.

[T-Bone Biggins]

Originally posted by Joe Biden Gaming:

Again, I would be fine if all they did was give the AI in conquest mode the same rules as you. Limited spawns. Then it becomes a test of genuine unit management and efficiency.

I noticed how crewed vehicles will just let infantry sneak up to them real close just because the machine gun turret is facing the other way. I think this is to promote mixed unit strategy, keeping infantry near vehicles to guard them was a thing in WW2. It just seems off in implementation here. And armored truck with windows, 2 riflemen in the backseat not doing anything, and you can just look out the windows to see the AT-infantry walking right up to you less than 50m away.........

[DosMan]

Lord-Knight Fandragon how did you change your settings for conquest mode, i cant find anywhere to change them ingame or in the game folders either, any help would be appreciated ty :)

[Lord-Knight Fandragon]

Originally posted by DosMan:

Lord-Knight Fandragon how did you change your settings for conquest mode, i cant find anywhere to change them ingame or in the game folders either, any help would be appreciated ty :)

The different Conquest files I could find are in a few different locations.

The economy and money earnings are in: resource/set/dynamic_campaign/<The various different value.set files>

Also in resource/set/dynamic_campaign is where the research tree for each faction is. This pertains to how the tree is set up, how much each unit costs in research points and what is unlocked in what order

The AI unit spawn priority(IE: WHAT they will most likely spawn in) is in: resource/script/multiplayer/bot.data.purchase.campaign_capture_the_flag.set

The file that pertains to conquest match time and(I think) the AI growth amount and how much they actually do spawn, is in resource/set/multiplayer/games/campaign_capture_the_flag.set

There is also the faction unit files and the files that determine how much units cost, if your so inclined to try and add your own squads. Theres a few more steps to this, but this is where those are.
Resource/set/multiplayer/units/<the various faction unit files>

[DosMan]

i only have entity, interface, shader and texture in my resource folder beside all the .pak files