Air Units Problems in Call to Arms

[Shaftoe]

Hello!

I wanted to write this for quite some time... I've just scored my 225th game and so I believe my experience is sufficient to provide some valuable feedback on the matter, to invite a change that will benefit the game. I know that development team reads this forum and answers to the people who ask. I hope my topic won't be ignored. Partly because nobody likes to be ignored. Partly because air units (as a class) is a mess, and something needs to be done with it.

However, I don't think they're bad... Air units in Call to Arms have somewhat dual nature: on one hand, they're poor as vehicles and clearly underdeveloped, both conceptually and technically, but on the other hand, they're immensely useful assets, greatly contributing to the game's RTS and FPS experience.


For sake of convenience, all problems are separated in several groups:

I. BUGS (and other problems)

Currently, class of air units is plagued by bugs. I don't dare to state that I konow them all, but I use helicopters frequently. Much more often than other players with whom I play Call to Arms. No wonder that I was able to find problems other people don't even care about. I've checked these bugs several times on different maps in 'Combined Arms' game mode. All bugs persist and can be easily replicated. The list of known bugs is below:

1. Air vehicles don't have inventory items as other vehicles
-If you land your Apache or Black Hawk and check it's inventory, you won't find anything. There is no fuel, no rockets, no missiles, no shells. M1A2 Abrams' invetory is filled with items such as those I mentoined above. You can take them, and this will affect tank's ammo/fuel count. It seems that choppers are completely independent from their own empty inventories.

Interesting case: Once I've used all of my 'Hellfire' missiles and landed my Apache. Although missile pylons were empty, 1 'Hellfire missile'item appeared in chopper's inventory. I was able to take it as a pilot and had it in pilot's inventory. Then I returned it back to Apache's inventory. However, no missiles appeared on empty pylons. Furthermore, despite the fact that there was a missile in Apache's inventory, the game didn't see it as a weapon in direct control mode.

2. Air vehicles can't be resupplied by ammo trucks/manually
-If you land your dry empty helicopter and order a supply truck to stop nearby, it won't resupply your helicopter. Firstly, helicopter won't be resupplied even after a prolonged stay near the truck. Secondly, the truck doesn't spend it's ammo points. So, even after 10 minutes of wait, chopper won't be resupplied and truck's ammo points won't be used. For sake of a test, I've tried to resupply a crewed Apache with 2 pilots inside and an empty Apache, but nothing changed.

-Since helicopters don't have any items in their inventories, there is no way to resupply them manually. And even if there were items, the case I've described above clearly shows us that the game doesn't see helicopter missiles as a weapon.


3. Air vehicles can't be refueled
-Currently, there is no way to refuel a helicopter. I've tried ammo trucks, but to no effect. The only way to conserve fuel is to land your helicopter and order pilots to disembark. This isn't pretty, but it is the only way to make sure your bird won't crash somewhere on the map during prolonged battle.

4. Air units that landed because of fuel shortage don't touch the ground
-If your chopper, specifically Apache Heavy, runs out of fuel, it will land safely. This happends immediately after the fuel runs out. And this is great, but when chopper lands, it doesn't touch down. It levitates at small altitude above the ground, with it's engine turned off. Pilots can disembark it. But the model itself isn't sitting on the ground. This is especially noticeable if a helicopter lands on a hill.

5. Pilots can't repair air vehicles
-Although pilots have 'Repair' button, they can't actually repair a damaged helicopter. Engineers and tank crews can't repair damaged choppers either. And, of course, I mean safely landed helicopters that sustained only a minor damage - not burned out hulks.

6. When Black Hawk unloads troops, doors work incorrectly.
-When Black Hawk unloads troops, those come out from pilots cockpit and infantry compartment simultaneously. Also, they open and close doors every time someone enters/exits, which makes this process look weird and take longer. This should be fixed.

7. GRM helicopters don't have desert camo. Even in the desert, they fly in winter camo.
-Furthermore, all GRM choppers and planes on the ground (Mission 'Rolling Thunder', map 'Desert Airfield') are painted in the same winter color scheme. Which is definitely incorrect.


II. BALANCE

Many people have stated before that choppers are overpriced. In my opinion, they're right. They're right, because a chopper, although very mobile and almost invulnerable to small arms fire, is not capable of affecting a battlefield in a manner M1A2 TUSK or T-80U can. A chopper in Call to Arms is most effective when it's used in first person mode to provide fire support from a very long range. Just like in reality. And this is great!
But let's stop for a minute and look into gameplay on attack choppers: in order to be effective, you must control it directly (thus turning your back on the rest of your forces), you can't capture anything, you can't come too close to a front line, you're always very noticeable. You will try to play very carefully, because you know that any "a little too much" aggressive action will result in your obliteration... by a ZPU Technical that is roughly 10 times cheaper than you. Well, it just does what it's supposed to do, right? Then let's take BTR-80, BTR-82A, BMP2, BMP3, T-62, T-80BV, T-80U, Bradley, M1A2, M1A2 TUSK as examples, alright? Because all of them can easily destroy a flying Apache or a Hind... while being both cheaper and more effective units, since they can actually come under fire and survive, capture something or be used in RTS mode.

And I'm not even mentoining bugs here (described in part I), bugs which make helicopters even less feasible.

This problem will be continued in Part III (Types)...


III. TYPES

...this part is a continuation of Part II (Balance), and is aimed to outline some other important problems and provide possible solutions to them.

US:

Black Hawk (700) - this unit should be cut from the game and replaced by a faster, but more vulnerable MH-6 'Little Bird'. At least that will make sense (unlike an unarmed UH60).
Transports 1 completely useless SEAL team that can't fight enemy armored vehicles effectively, can't counter large masses of infantry and thus can't capture and hold anything behind enemy lines, so it's incapable of finishing missions that'd have required a helicopter drop.
I recommend you to replace them by rangers that have rocket launchers and a machine gun or just give these items to them from the start. For a Little Bird, price tag at 700 should be okay.

Black Hawk Heavy (1000) - this one should be default transport helicopter. These side miniguns are must have for transport chopper in Call to Arms. Onboard SEAL team is inadequate, because it has no much needed anti-tank rocket launchers nor a machine gun. Without means to fight tanks and large masses of infantry, no helicopter strike team will be feasible. So, I recommend you to replace them by rangers that have rocket launchers and a machine gun or just give these items to them from the start. Price tag at 1000 MPs will be okay, IF onboard infantry gets their machine gun and AT rockets.

Apache (1800) - this unit should be cut from the game. As for a price... it just doesn't cost 1800 MPs, because it's very vulnerabe and can't fight armored vehicles properly. Basically, this unit is anti-infantry version of Apache. But in reality, Apaches usually provide more complex fire support and primarily focused on taking out enemy tanks from a very long distance.
So, I recommend this unit to be replced by a faster, but more vulnerable AH-6 'Little Bird', armed with 2 M134 miniguns and 2 Hydra rocket pods. Price should be decreased to 1500 MPs.

Apache Heavy (2500) - this one should be the default Apache. Fix the bugs, decrease the price to 2000 MPs and it will be perfect.

GRM:

Mi-17 (670) - this one should be cut from the game. Same issues as with Black Hawk, but no idea for replacement.

Mi-17 Heavy (870) - this one should become GRM default transport helicopter. Make sure onboard infantry squad has a machine gun and anti-tank rocket launchers. Price tag should be increased to 950 MPs.

Mi-35 (1900) - this one should be cut from the game. Same issues as with Apache, but no idea for replacement.

Mi-35 Heavy (2400) - this one should be default Mi-35. Just add a small (but empty) infantry compartment (4-6 persons) to make it feel unique (US has lots of money and more chopper designs, and GRM uses old, but effective russian equipment - isn't that the idea?).
Fix the bugs, decrease the price to 1900 MPs and it will be okay.


IV. MOVEMENT ISSUES

Currently, helicopters move as ground vehicles in the air... This pattern is expected from a RTS game, but some moments are way off. For example, when a chopper moves backwards in FPS mode, it handles like a tank... but it should strafe. You know, like choppers do in strategy games (check such games as Act of War or Joint Task Force).
I do realize it's impossible to make choppers move 100% accurately, but such glaring issues definitely should be fixed.


V. AI ISSUES

AI doesn't use choppers at all. I can guess why. But you should teach it how to fly an attack chopper (at least) and use anti-tank missiles. And it would be wise to make sure AI always flies at highest possible altitude.


That's all.

Thank you for your attention. Air units is an important part of this game now. I hope that the Development Team will pay proper attention to them. Hope all this typing wasn't for nothing, and bugs I've described will be fixed soon. Solving other problems I've outlined will definitely make the game look more polished before the release.

[Tea the cat]

I've noticed these bugs too! They definitely should be fixed ASAP! Also, I like those Little Bird suggestions and Mi-35 infantry compartment.
Heli-drop infantry really lacks anti-tank rockets. And Gosh, those birds are overpriced! This suggestion is definitely what the game needs.

[momo-J]

i agree with u that will improve the game

[Shaftoe]

Also, I think air units should have their own icons, differet from ground vehicles.

[Samson]

It is very interesting that helicopters was added to the game. But it is horrible that they are such a useless in game process.

I completely agree with all those issues you describe and I hope developers will fix it up in near future.

[Woods]

Very good feedback, agree with all.
Especially about helicopters vulnerability and unit prices. US units have nearly the same efficiency as GRM units, but cost much more.

[Nocturnal Supremacy]

+1 for adding MH-6 'Little Bird'

A fast, nimble helicoper would be loads of fun to control

Plus a very useful asset for insertion of special forces, great unit for extra MP possibilites

[Shaftoe]

Originally posted by Gepanzerte Faust:

+1 for adding MH-6 'Little Bird'

A fast, nimble helicoper would be loads of fun to control

Plus a very useful asset for insertion of special forces, great unit for extra MP possibilites :cta_emo1:

Yeah, MH-6 makes much more sense than an unarmed Black Hawk transporting SEALs.

Making cheaper 'Lite' versions of helicopters (while calling normal versions 'Heavy') is a bad idea. Of course, it spares the Devs some work, but overall result looks cheap and disappointing. This is not the way any good and recommendable game wants to go.

I hope MH-6 and AH-6 will eventually replace those oddballs we currently have under 700 and 1800 price tags. They're just better for the job and don't invoke negative reactions from players who expect to get Black Hawk with miniguns and Apache with Hellfire missiles.

Same goes for Mi-35's troop compartment. It's expected by players who know what Mi-35 actually is - it's an assault troop carrier, not just an attack helicopter, such as AH64D.
Of course, gameplay takes precedence over reality. But it's hardly a gamebreaking advantage, so I think it'll be fair to include as part of Mi-35's functional. In my opinion, such feature will only benefit GRM's unique playstyle.

You know, it's a good thing factions are different. "Same stats, different skins" way of making games is well in the past.

[The last Romanov]

+ i agree

[Burrito Mussolini]

+1 agree

[Nocturnal Supremacy]

Also...

Will the jets ever finally get some ordnance for their pylons?

[Swivvel]

Agreed, Very Well Put.

[trackday]

+1

[Wyzzz]

Agree +1

[Disguise]

+1 I support

[Shaftoe]

Originally posted by QUANTUM MECHANICS c000021a:

To be honest, half of the issues described by Shaftoe could be solved by changing the damage model on air vehicles. Hopefully the developers will not forgot it while developing the new damage model for land vehicles though. There should be a restriction for tanks to shoot at helicopters and planes in overall with main cannons because its unrealistic and pretty ridiculous.

About refueling and repairing, it can be easily soluted by repair/refuel truck. If we have already ammo truck and it works briliantly why not to have repair/refuel truck ?

Ugh... I believe you missed my point. Completely. Choppers are borken and overpriced. Ammo truck doesn't work.

More kinds of trucks won't fit in the game's economy. It would be easier to rename existing 'Ammo truck' to a 'Supply truck', which implies it carriers both ammunition/spare parts and fuel.

And about tanks shooting at choppers... I think helicopters just should fly higher and faster. Technically, a tank can destroy a low howering helicopter, even with a single armor piercing round. This possibility should not be excluded from the game.