Where is Quake, Heretic, and Hexen?

[MWH]

There's no better time to revisit those games. It seems like they want to milk the blood out of the Doom cow first before moving to the next. We love Doom, but For God's sake, id, have some balls and get busy with something new or different worthy of your legacy.

[Princess Luna]

So "milk" Doom is bad but milkget busy with Quake is Ok?

[MWH]

Originally posted by Princess Luna:

So "milk" Doom is bad but milkget busy with Quake is Ok?

What?

[Rico Raccoon]

Originally posted by MWH:

Originally posted by Princess Luna:

So "milk" Doom is bad but milkget busy with Quake is Ok?

What?

Ignore him, he's braindead

Yeah, i agree. Where the ♥♥♥♥ is Quake?

[ღMoraღ]

The next Quake is apparently made by Machinegame studio

[MWH]

Originally posted by Mora:

The next Quake is apparently made by Machinegame studio

No confirmation whatsoever.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

I want this to happen (especially Hexen,) but I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if it does. I could see Machine Games or someone making a smaller scale side project to revive Quake, and I loved the new episodes in the Quake remasters and how they tied the Lovecraftian stuff into the Strogg stuff.

But in terms of Id making a full on game with the scope and effort involved in the new Dooms, I just don't see it personally. There's just not enough that differentiates Doom from Quake now in the eyes of casual observers. What made Quake unique mechanically and in terms of design, was that it was Doom but faster, with free look, jumping, more elaborate level design, and had smaller but more deadly enemy waves (often almost one on one scenarios, even.)

With the modern Dooms, we already have all of that, now even including the more gothic and fantasy visual design elements (though it's not Lovecraftian in the same ways, I doubt most people care about that; they likely just see, "Oh, Doom with castles and fantasy stuff.") Even up to and including the special enemies that fight us in more sort of one v one situations. Think Eternal's Marauder, and how that felt like a special encounter whenever it happened, often in tight quarters. That felt very Quake 1 esque to me in a way.

Heretic, meanwhile, is just fantasy Doom. There's more to it than that but, again, most people likely won't care about that and upon seeing a new Heretic would just go, "How is this different from The Dark Ages?"

Hexen, ironically, is actually the game design that is most distinctive and that I'd love to see the most. It feels genuinely separate from Doom and Quake in a way Heretic never quite did to me, with its emphasis on slower pace, traps, elaborate multi-step puzzles, etc. That I could actually see them finding a way to differentiate, except...

... that very slow pace and tedious puzzle solving that I love so much about it is exactly why it likely wouldn't get greenlit as a project, because it would have niche appeal today I suspect. And again, The Dark Ages is already apparently doing the whole, "explore a larger area thoroughly and hunt for secrets and solve puzzles" thing (at least more than the last two Dooms did.)

So then if you instead make Hexen but to avoid it having niche appeal make it faster and less item and puzzle dependent... well, now you just have Heretic again, and you're back to the same question of: how does this game differentiate itself in the eyes of the casual observer from The Dark Ages?

To clarify, I'm not saying I don't want this to happen or that they couldn't find ways to do it. I absolutely do want it to happen, and have been wishing they would for basically ever at this point. (One reason the new episodes in the Quake remasters were so exciting to me.)

I'm just saying I am very skeptical that Id or anyone else (outside of, as I said, a smaller scale Machine Games Quake game maybe) would rather do a new Quake, much less a Hexen, instead of just more Doom, which is what I anticipate they'll probably keep doing.

The new Doom games have increasingly incorporated visual and thematic and design elements reminiscent of both Heretic and Quake, and so the effort required to differentiate them at a casual glance becomes even greater over time. Especially in a market that's also already full of throwback "boomer shooters" that are already trying to provide those experiences.

What I think might be more likely though, and those Quake remasters' new episodes give me some hope for that, along with Champions and other ways in which that's already happened, is that we get a sort of Idverse crossover game that directly and explicitly ties the Quake stuff into the Doom stuff (even more than it already has been.) I think that could kill two birds with one stone and maybe let them justify doing it.

All just idle speculation regardless of course. TLDR: I want them to do it, but I will be surprised if they do.

[MWH]

Originally posted by Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser:

I want this to happen (especially Hexen,) but I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if it does. I could see Machine Games or someone making a smaller scale side project to revive Quake, and I loved the new episodes in the Quake remasters and how they tied the Lovecraftian stuff into the Strogg stuff.

But in terms of Id making a full on game with the scope and effort involved in the new Dooms, I just don't see it personally. There's just not enough that differentiates Doom from Quake now in the eyes of casual observers. What made Quake unique mechanically and in terms of design, was that it was Doom but faster, with free look, jumping, more elaborate level design, and had smaller but more deadly enemy waves (often almost one on one scenarios, even.)

With the modern Dooms, we already have all of that, now even including the more gothic and fantasy visual design elements (though it's not Lovecraftian in the same ways, I doubt most people care about that; they likely just see, "Oh, Doom with castles and fantasy stuff.") Even up to and including the special enemies that fight us in more sort of one v one situations. Think Eternal's Marauder, and how that felt like a special encounter whenever it happened, often in tight quarters. That felt very Quake 1 esque to me in a way.

Heretic, meanwhile, is just fantasy Doom. There's more to it than that but, again, most people likely won't care about that and upon seeing a new Heretic would just go, "How is this different from The Dark Ages?"

Hexen, ironically, is actually the game design that is most distinctive and that I'd love to see the most. It feels genuinely separate from Doom and Quake in a way Heretic never quite did to me, with its emphasis on slower pace, traps, elaborate multi-step puzzles, etc. That I could actually see them finding a way to differentiate, except...

... that very slow pace and tedious puzzle solving that I love so much about it is exactly why it likely wouldn't get greenlit as a project, because it would have niche appeal today I suspect. And again, The Dark Ages is already apparently doing the whole, "explore a larger area thoroughly and hunt for secrets and solve puzzles" thing (at least more than the last two Dooms did.)

So then if you instead make Hexen but to avoid it having niche appeal make it faster and less item and puzzle dependent... well, now you just have Heretic again, and you're back to the same question of: how does this game differentiate itself in the eyes of the casual observer from The Dark Ages?

To clarify, I'm not saying I don't want this to happen or that they couldn't find ways to do it. I absolutely do want it to happen, and have been wishing they would for basically ever at this point. (One reason the new episodes in the Quake remasters were so exciting to me.)

I'm just saying I am very skeptical that Id or anyone else (outside of, as I said, a smaller scale Machine Games Quake game maybe) would rather do a new Quake, much less a Hexen, instead of just more Doom, which is what I anticipate they'll probably keep doing.

The new Doom games have increasingly incorporated visual and thematic and design elements reminiscent of both Heretic and Quake, and so the effort required to differentiate them at a casual glance becomes even greater over time. Especially in a market that's also already full of throwback "boomer shooters" that are already trying to provide those experiences.

What I think might be more likely though, and those Quake remasters' new episodes give me some hope for that, along with Champions and other ways in which that's already happened, is that we get a sort of Idverse crossover game that directly and explicitly ties the Quake stuff into the Doom stuff (even more than it already has been.) I think that could kill two birds with one stone and maybe let them justify doing it.

All just idle speculation regardless of course. TLDR: I want them to do it, but I will be surprised if they do.

I thought the exact same thing, especially the part how it does indeed look like id are borrowing and blending some elements from their other titles in Doom, making them redundant in the process. But I still think there can be ways to revive those games just like they did with Doom. They have to, they can't rely on just Doom. Dark Ages look over-the-top already, how much more can they do?

They have to come up with something else, something new, connecting worlds, I don't know, something.

Thanks for sharing your insights.

[ღMoraღ]

Originally posted by MWH:

Originally posted by Mora:

The next Quake is apparently made by Machinegame studio

No confirmation whatsoever.

True just an easter egg at the board of machinegame studio with "quake vi" write on it so yes without a true annoncement it's mostly a rumor

[ULTRA]

They're not called "DOOM" so they're not favored by the marketing people

[skibididi]

hopefully the fact that this doom is darker and moodier is a way to get the nudoom audience into that aesthetic before rebooting Quake... right??? right???????????????

[kat998]

No one gives a ♥♥♥♥ about Heretic and Hexen other than boomers and retrogamers

[skibididi]

Originally posted by kat998:

No one gives a ♥♥♥♥ about Heretic and Hexen other than boomers and retrogamers

based xhister

[MWH]

Originally posted by kat998:

No one gives a ♥♥♥♥ about Heretic and Hexen other than boomers and retrogamers

You'll join the club sooner or later, if you're lucky to live that long.

[Zapmaster]

We did get a new Quake game. So Instead of whining about it come and play Quake Champions, it's free and plays great now.

[skibididi]

Originally posted by Zapmaster:

We did get a new Quake game. So Instead of whining about it come and play Quake Champions, it's free and plays great now.

wrong!