Planetary defense

[frdnwsm]

People complain that planetary defenses are too weak. Well, any fortification left to its own devices, without troop support, is weak to assault by hostile mobile forces. I have, however, noticed something that makes them weaker than they should be.

When I am attacking a planet with defenses ... star base, orbital batteries, missile base ... even when there is a fleet helping to defend the planet, the defending ships start out on the far edge of the tactical combat map! What the heck kind of generalship is this?? I don't advance my ships at all, and engage the planetary defenses at long range.

By the time the enemy fleet is in range to fire at me, I have already taken out the star base and the orbital battery, and have weakened the missile base. (I leave the missile base to last because my ships always have excellent PD defenses.) The enemy fleet is then engaged with little or no defensive support from the planet.

Seriously, this is ridiculous programming on the part of the AI. Sure, in a meeting engagement on a non-colonized system, fleets should start out as far from each other as possible. But when defending a planet, their ships should start out near the world they are supposed to be protecting.

[Zhivago]

And the weapons in these fixed planetary defenses should have a longer range (say 125%). Otherwise, there is almost no reason to build them, other than to ward of pirates, which a military outpost does just fine.

[woolfsmck]

I have noticed that the ai controlled fleets won't attack in your territory if your fleet + planet defences are stronger than theirs. But they will fight to the last scout in their own territory.

[purdueguy]

Have you looked at missile bases loadout, pitiful! It's fine for early game but they should add Missile base 2 and 3 (in tech tree) to upgrade their strength, like we upgrade starbase.

[CommanderCrain]

I noticed that missiles from bases have a longer range than those on ships, which is good!
However, I think even after researching better missiles my military outposts are still equipped with
Merculite missiles. Same goes for beams, why would I have fusion beams on my outposts when I have Plasma beams?
Do you guys see the same?

[seabo_76]

Originally posted by CommanderCrain:

I noticed that missiles from bases have a longer range than those on ships, which is good!
However, I think even after researching better missiles my military outposts are still equipped with
Merculite missiles. Same goes for beams, why would I have fusion beams on my outposts when I have Plasma beams?
Do you guys see the same?

Sometimes but you also have to factor in secondary types, not surewhat they're called atm. A Mirv Merculite will actually do more dps than standard Zeon.
Same with Heavy Mount lasers usually

[frdnwsm]

The inabilty to custom design your planetary defenses to be in line with your ship tech is another flaw in the system.

As for your example of Heavy mount lasers ... these are garbage compared to heavy mount mass drivers.

Right now, the only real reason to even build star bases is to increase your ship command points.

[purdueguy]

I would just really like the Devs to add an 'Advanced Missile Base' and 'Massive Missile Base' to the tech tree, same for beam base, so that it scales well with the game.

As an example of how pathetic the missile base is: By the time I got phasers, so mid to late game, in tactical combat I selected my missiles base. It has something like 1 or 2(!!) pulson missiles and a few pd beams! That's crazy! In the early game when I first get the cruiser hull I can fit 11 mercullite missiles! It should at least be able to do that.

The starbase, battlestation and star fortress aren't poweful either. In MOO2 a star fortress was massive, I believe as powerful as a doomstar. With the weak defenses the game forces you to play ONE way - build lots of units. It's not like Starcraft (as an example) with multiple strategy options. Where I could choose to 'turtle-in' and build lots of protoss cannons, let the enemy come to me and get wiped out and then send surgical strikes out to their less defended bases. I only have ONE OPTION in moo-cts, and that's a shame.

*edit * - I feel so strongly on this, I added this to the feedback forum:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/298050/discussions/2/350542683197467184/

[Arkelis]

Originally posted by seabo_76:

Originally posted by CommanderCrain:

I noticed that missiles from bases have a longer range than those on ships, which is good!
However, I think even after researching better missiles my military outposts are still equipped with
Merculite missiles. Same goes for beams, why would I have fusion beams on my outposts when I have Plasma beams?
Do you guys see the same?

Sometimes but you also have to factor in secondary types, not surewhat they're called atm. A Mirv Merculite will actually do more dps than standard Zeon.
Same with Heavy Mount lasers usually

I believe it's pulson missiles you are thinking about. However merculite missiles with mirv do 50 damage instead of 25 which is the same as a standard pulson missile but the extra 50% space/weight that modifier causes can mean you are still getting better damage from the Pulson (if you can fit more).

The advantage of mirv at the moment (I think it's bugged myself) is that your pd won't fire on the smaller 4 warheads of a mirv missile.
In the description on the modifier it says the missile should only break into mirv just before it hits but I have found, through testing, that things with mirv missiles seem to fire one volley as standard missiles which pd will destroy and the second volley as mirv which pd will not destroy.
And just keep alternating between the two missile types.

To see this for yourself, go into a battle with mirv equipped and zoom right into your missiles when they fire.
You should see the difference, one volley will be big single missles and the other volley will be mirv, 4 smaller warheads splitting apart (it takes a little bit of distance for the mirv to take effect so give it time).
You should also see the bigger missiles will fall to pd if the enemy has any but the mirv will hit home everytime.
The same thing will happen to you if the enemy has mirv.

I've tested this a lot and also watched it happen in LP's on youtube.

I don't believe they should be working that way. I think all your missile volleys should break into mirv format (if you have the modifier equipped) and try to overwhelm pd's not make them mute altogether. Would need a dev to confirm though.

[martin77]

Originally posted by Arkelis:

Originally posted by seabo_76:

To see this for yourself, go into a battle with mirv equipped and zoom right into your missiles when they fire.
You should see the difference, one volley will be big single missles and the other volley will be mirv, 4 smaller warheads splitting apart (it takes a little bit of distance for the mirv to take effect so give it time).
You should also see the bigger missiles will fall to pd if the enemy has any but the mirv will hit home everytime.
The same thing will happen to you if the enemy has mirv.

I've tested this a lot and also watched it happen in LP's on youtube.

I don't believe they should be working that way. I think all your missile volleys should break into mirv format (if you have the modifier equipped) and try to overwhelm pd's not make them mute altogether. Would need a dev to confirm though.

in mMoo2 you could used the same tactic:
Many normal light atomic missiles with armor, and then just one bigger missile with MIRV and
one another one with Emission guidance.
The ship was doomed, they shoot at the atomic missiles, waste the PD ammo, then the Mirv missile deplete the shield and then the emission guided missile crush the engine: BOOM