Battle Pods - Please give them back as useful

[Llywylln]

Maybe Battle pods got nerfed because no one wanted Fighter bays. Maybe they were hit by a drunken Balance Pass. Whatever the reasoning, just get over it and put them back. You seem to be 'honoring' the spirit of MOO2 lately and they used to be just fine. +50% space, No Cost. They are 'supposed' to be an external attachment.. a Pod, after all and they add extra space. At the moment, they are 'offering' 25% extra space and then charging you about 60% of that in rent.

Are overgunned Frigates really dominating multiplayer? Is the destroyer with 165 spaces really swaying the art of space way that much? Later on you get Miniturization which gives you a flat 25% bonus, no? So what's the big deal?

If you put them on a Frigate now, you don't even get enough space for 1 more gun unless you put in outdated tech like a laser cannon and then you might get 2. These are 'BATTLE' pods, they are supposed to allow you to add a bunch of weapons. Since you only get 1 of 2 options for that whole Advanced Construction branch, the one thing you get ought to be worth something.

[Davor]

I just say increase the cost of battle pods and we can put on as much as we like. So if I wanted two of them on, so be it. It should cost more to use.

I have more ideas but until we know the direction MOO will take through expansion packs I will say no more of it. I have some ideas. Some are not in the spirit of the direction of how the devs want MOO to play, and I have some ideas that are in the spirit of the direction how the devs want MOO to play.

[Llywylln]

I should cost 'Production' but not cost Space to add on pods.

[Syrris]

It's thematically reasonable for the pods to use some space. They aren't just duct taped onto the exterior; they have to be integrated into the hull design, support systems have to be more robust, etc.

They were made weaker is that they were too much of a game-changer in their earlier incarnations, particularly given how early they appeared in the tech tree, whereas miniaturization comes much later. A flat +50% battle pod would have to be down the very end of the tree.

The current model means that they give a small benefit when they first appear (when frigates and destroyers are liable be the bulk of a fleet), with increasing benefit later on (since they're more efficient on larger hull designs). They're still game changing, but the effect is more gradual.

[purdueguy]

Hyper X capacitors are the new go to space saver now.

[frdnwsm]

Battle pods allow me to put heavy armor, reinforced hull and 2 extra PD mass drivers on a frigate armed with 2 MIRVed merculite missiles. They turn my destroyers into moving PD platforms (also with armor and hull buffs), and I can stick 9 MIRVed merculite missile mounts on a cruiser with them in place.

Not hugely overpowered like before, perhaps, but certainly still useful. They are high on my research priority list.

[seabo_76]

Originally posted by purdueguy:

Hyper X capacitors are the new go to space saver now.

Pretty much.

Battle pods really only come into their own on Cruisers and up.
And by turn 150 or so I'm rarely producing Frigates and Destroyers anyways.
It's still a no brainer vs Fighter Bays although having LCV's (Light Carriers w/3 Fighter Bays and as much PD as I can shoehorn in) are not that bad. I tend to use them as support/defence units behind my main fleets. Good for delaying enemies as they're pretty much autobuild....at least still hoping so with new pollution mechanic...

[Llywylln]

Originally posted by Syrris:

It's thematically reasonable for the pods to use some space. They aren't just duct taped onto the exterior; they have to be integrated into the hull design, support systems have to be more robust, etc.

They were made weaker is that they were too much of a game-changer in their earlier incarnations, particularly given how early they appeared in the tech tree, whereas miniaturization comes much later. A flat +50% battle pod would have to be down the very end of the tree.

The current model means that they give a small benefit when they first appear (when frigates and destroyers are liable be the bulk of a fleet), with increasing benefit later on (since they're more efficient on larger hull designs). They're still game changing, but the effect is more gradual.

Thay 'say' you get 25% more space but then they charge you more than half of that. For a Frigate, you gain 16.25 spaces but spend 8.75 so you get 7.5 space. That is less than 12% and the only things you can fit into your 'battle pds' are 1 laser cannon, 1 neutron blaster who has been micronized to 7.2 spaces, or some point defenses or anti-missile rockets. Woohoo. For the destroyer, you get 27.5 spaces but spend 16.25 I think so you only get 11.25 which is enough for a mass driver... 1 anyhow.

Advanced Construction follows the tech that gives you Cruisers, and at least you get a bit more space on a cruiser (62.5 spaces) before you spend 26 of them and thus you get a whopping 36 spaces on a cruiser. Originally you got 50% flat with a 0 cost. No, you dont have to assume that they should cost spaces to add on, you can assume instead that the cost is part of the total gained and just omitted for simplicity. For example, the pod gives you 65% space but costs you 15% spaces so you profit 50% and we just say 50% because it's simpler.

[Llywylln]

Originally posted by frdnwsm:

Battle pods allow me to put heavy armor, reinforced hull and 2 extra PD mass drivers on a frigate armed with 2 MIRVed merculite missiles. They turn my destroyers into moving PD platforms (also with armor and hull buffs), and I can stick 9 MIRVed merculite missile mounts on a cruiser with them in place.

Not hugely overpowered like before, perhaps, but certainly still useful. They are high on my research priority list.

Heavy Armor and Reinforced hull have 0 cost so you dont need the pods for them.

[Llywylln]

The point about Game Balance is simple, everyone has access to the same tech tree, so how is it not balanced? The guy who gets the new toys first always has an advantage but that's the way the game works, period. Why Nerf an advantage to the point that it isn't one? How do you justify the cost of the tech research? Rename them 'Aggressive Blisters' so that people who remember what Battle Pods from MOO were don't get understandably mislead.

[Captain Cosmo]

Unnerf the battle pods, guys. Seriously. This is a classic mod that has been around since MoO2 and it enhanced the game experience by letting you actually build decent warships. If people are whining in multiplayer, just ignore them. Multiplayer should never interfere with single-player experience and that's what I'm here for.

[Llywylln]

Originally posted by XarisD:

Unnerf the battle pods, guys. Seriously. This is a classic mod that has been around since MoO2 and it enhanced the game experience by letting you actually build decent warships. If people are whining in multiplayer, just ignore them. Multiplayer should never interfere with single-player experience and that's what I'm here for.

Amen >insert non-genger-specific-sibling-reference-here< (can't tell from your handle :) )

[Mituna]

Originally posted by quinion:

Originally posted by XarisD:

Unnerf the battle pods, guys. Seriously. This is a classic mod that has been around since MoO2 and it enhanced the game experience by letting you actually build decent warships. If people are whining in multiplayer, just ignore them. Multiplayer should never interfere with single-player experience and that's what I'm here for.

Amen >insert non-genger-specific-sibling-reference-here< (can't tell from your handle :) )

I agree as well - battle pods were great in MOO2 and don't need changing.

[Red Earth]

Why shouldn't they cost something? There's no such thing as a free lunch.

[Spud Dastardly]

Originally posted by Red Earth:

Why shouldn't they cost something? There's no such thing as a free lunch.

It's reasonable that a ship with battle pods should cost extra production to build, but it does seem a bit silly to have a tech that gives free space take up space itself.

[Mituna]

Originally posted by Red Earth:

Why shouldn't they cost something? There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Of course they should cost something - this was already mentioned:

Originally posted by quinion:

I should cost 'Production' but not cost Space to add on pods.

But giving space and then taking more than half of that makes no sense, and the reduction in space given from 50% to 25% (actually less than 12%) was also unnecessary:

Originally posted by quinion:

Originally you got 50% flat with a 0 cost. No, you dont have to assume that they should cost spaces to add on, you can assume instead that the cost is part of the total gained and just omitted for simplicity. For example, the pod gives you 65% space but costs you 15% spaces so you profit 50% and we just say 50% because it's simpler.