Dauntless Guidance System Broken?

[RedMarth]

Mine doesn't seem to be doing anything since the new patch. Maybe it has something to do with the MIRV fix? Anyone else noticing this problem?

[WhatIsSol]

When they patched the MIRV spawning issue they set the fragments owner as the firing missile. The firing missile does not have dauntless system and therefore the fragments to not retarget. I actually talked to the developer about this, but the decision was made that this was the intended action.

So yep dauntless is sort of limited use in combination with MIRV.

[DeadlyDanDaMan]

Originally posted by ▀▄ Doc✪Greystone ² ▄▀:

Since I bought this game community manager Jonathan from San Francisco USA has litteraly done nothing for this game.

He's not even a part of the team for this game anymore. I don't think he has been for a while.

[RedMarth]

So does Dauntless still work sans MIRV? I don't suppose you have any intention of rectifying this in a future UCP do you... *wink wink*

[bilbous]

If you look at the default missile loadout for the newly researched ships from before the patch you will see that the mirv missile allotment is smaller than the ecm+fast missile allotment. Of course they are just part of the assortment of weapons on those ships. It seems likely that it was always the intention. It seems to me that the fast missiles would go in and trigger the PD before the mirvs separate and possibly even destroy the target. They might not be quite fast enough for that though.

[WhatIsSol]

Daughtless works up until the missile fragments. So when it is whole retargeting is possible, after it fragments not so much.

[RedMarth]

Okay, maybe I secretly like this. I've always felt like Dauntless MIRVd missiles are a little OP, and now you are forced to choose. Hard-hitting vs. tracking. Now there's a reason to think about whether to upgrade. I'm currently experimenting with specializing my ships. Fast non-MIRVd Titan for taking out those fleets of Frigates, and MIRVd Titan for larger targets.

Of course, I do wish they said this somewhere in some description of something.

[martin77]

maybe you are right.
missiles against beams were in the early game far to good.

[numbnumbnewbie]

Originally posted by ▀▄ Doc✪Greystone ² ▄▀:

Since I bought this game community manager Jonathan from San Francisco USA has litteraly done nothing for this game.

lol, Mr. Greystone, please check out the MODs section, awesome content especially from Spuds 5X ultimate balance MOD, then add WhatisSol bug fixes and Voila, awesome game. Instead of putting time in unreal tournament, you should consider putting in 500+ hours in the 5X ultimate balance MOD, it's really fun and more fun with "impossible" AI difficulty.

[WhatIsSol]

Yeah, to me this was a toss up decision, but overall really missiles need some balance in this game. Currently they are simply too effective.

Since it seems everyone either uses them almost exclusively for the first 3/4 of the game or even for the entire game. I'm leaning towards them needing a damage nerf, much longer cooldown, the reintroduction of Ammo usage to them, or some combination of the above.

Damage nerf/Cooldown would be a simple yaml update - my next game I'm going to double missile cooldown just to see the effect it has on combat and AI tactics.

But ammo would have to be a code change. I seem to recall MOO 1 & 2 missile bays came in 2 or 5 shot variety. Maybe default to 2 shot and add another missile mod for High Capacity that ups the shot count to 5.

[bilbous]

The thing is you can do what you want to them but it just means you need more ships in your stack. If you have 10 titans with 50 missile bays you are only going to lose a few ships before the opposing fleet is overwhelmed. Granted they have to be up to date missiles and you need sturdy ships but that isn't too hard to do. The problem with beam weapons is all that targeting crap you have to load up your ship with. Beam weapons are too singular. Missiles by default spread out and attack whatever is closest. If you have six slots of beam weapons you can attack six targets on auto but only one manually. With dauntless missiles each volley attacks many targets either way.

A missile ship attacking a beam ship requires no point defense, you can't shoot down a beam. A beam ship vs a missile ship has to waste slots on point defense just to reduce the damage taken. It is normally futile.
Anyway that is how it seems to me.

[WhatIsSol]

Just something I'm toying with at the moment. Do note that if I do add ammo usage I will make the count of missiles modderable and the game default would be like 999 count so basically ulimated for those that do not want such a balance adjustment.

Digging into the AI it appears to me that the AI gets scared of the player since the player builds mainly missile ships which given the current balance way out DPS mixed or beam ships calculation. Thus the AI decides it can not beat the player and does not bother to attack them unless it has overwhelming numbers (which means almost never).

For DPS calculations best would either be a damager reduction or cooldown adjustment.

Anyway, this is a working theory right now - just something I'm testing out is all.

[bilbous]

I gotta say the cost of missile ships is fairly prohibative. They seem to be considerably more expensive. Half again as much as a default ship, at least, if I remember correctly, so you might want to factor that in too. Try comparing on a credit for credit basis.

[RedMarth]

Originally posted by WhatIsSol:

Just something I'm toying with at the moment. Do note that if I do add ammo usage I will make the count of missiles modderable and the game default would be like 999 count so basically ulimated for those that do not want such a balance adjustment.

Digging into the AI it appears to me that the AI gets scared of the player since the player builds mainly missile ships which given the current balance way out DPS mixed or beam ships calculation. Thus the AI decides it can not beat the player and does not bother to attack them unless it has overwhelming numbers (which means almost never).

For DPS calculations best would either be a damager reduction or cooldown adjustment.

Anyway, this is a working theory right now - just something I'm testing out is all.

Seems to me like a cool down adjustment is the right answer. That way, players still have their heavy hitting option if they want it, but they're going to have to sit around and take some hits while they wait to reload. Unless you can win in that first volley, taking exclusively missiles would no longer be the best strategy.

That, or decrease cool down on beam weapons. I've always felt like cannons should reload faster as a trade-off for their lower accuracy and damage range reduction.

[RedMarth]

Besides, that kind of makes more sense from a role-playing point of view too. I mean, some poor fool has to actually pick up a missile and stick it in a tube, right? That should take way longer than a beam weapon recharging.

[bilbous]

missile auto loaders, this ain't steampunk. It would be better to improve beams to spread, still suffer directional limits but at least multiple targets could be hit at range. Perhaps a beam spreader could be a new mod. Doesn't have to make sense if it achieves a bit of balance. Anyway a beam spreader could be like laser light shows only with power.