I hate this game and I will explain why.

[>_o]

The thing I like the most about Tower Defense games is when they provide a level that is hard to beat, and it is like a puzzle, you have to work out the best place to put towers to do the most damage and stop stuff getting through. Most games do this and I love it.

But this game doesn't even have that challenge! The levels are so easy you don't need any thought behind what you do, and there is no challenge, and no strategy. It is a swarm of weak monsters that run through, and you just place a few strong towers anywhere along the path, and it slaughters them all. Level over, here are a million xp points and achievements, on to the next one, sheep.

You are then expected to play the missions on Endurance mode which has monsters that are so strong it doesnt' last long. Maybe later in the game this changes but I am currently level 90 or something and bored already.

It is a game with no balance and no finesse and no fine tuning. You are expected to make your own challenge by putting artificial boosts on the levels with Traits to make them harder or to slog away at the tedious Endurance mode. The reason I hate the game though is because the actual game itself is really good otherwise. The gem making is great, there are strategic choices with making the gems and where to place them, and there are plenty of interesting upgrade routes, and the maps are a nice mixture of linear puzzles to beat, but with some occasional chances of shaping the path with walls. But all this is for nothing when the levels aren't balanced.

[>_o]

strigvir a écrit :

The only thing sucks there is your gar­bage opinion, as you can't accept a tower defence game not being a cookie-cutter clone of another tower defence game.

I can accept many different types of games. I played this for 120 levels after all, I just think it does a bad job of the core principles of tower defense. One of my favorite games is Creeper World series which is far from a cookie cutter clone. Also Plants vs Zombies, Orcs Must Die, etc. I played all different types.

[liosalpha]

lol, I was bored with creeper world because it was so limited/repetative. But sure there must be worse tower defense games out there then gemcraft.... like "Bardbarian" or "Hero Defense."
but to each its own i gues. I realy like Gemcraft for it ambiance, mystery and open approach to the levels. Even if its turns out to be a "goof ball" level or a "ill come back later" level.

What do you think of Soul Locus thou? Its a shame the game devs are not active on steam anymore.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/349190/

[frankbexxx]

The Gemcraft series, and this in particulary, are so chalenging, that only the best tower defence players can achieve the most of it.

The medium players will bend in the middle, saying that CG2CS is not that good. :)

[liosalpha]

The only hard parts in the game are some of the V# levels and sertain iron wizard mode levels. the rest can be tailored to your own likings.

[Warlok]

JD, I couldn`t disagree more. GemCraft has those challenge levels, particularly when it comes to trying to unlock your upgrade capabilities and new assets. What I like about GemCraft is that it does indeed have a RAFT of (great deal of) levels which are not insanely hard... which are merely immensely fun. That's predicated upon whether or not you find the overall GemCraft approach fun.

I`'ve played some good TD games, and I still rate GemCraft the highest. My own complaint is only with the engine... I would love to see this in Unity or CryEngine 3, utilizing my graphics card to eliminate slowdown and keep the action smooth on the later levels. Hundreds of hours into the game; looking forward to the next entry, if there is to be one.

[MTB-Fritz]

First of all....I agree that with no modifiers playing the game on "default" makes it very boring. That said....I d state that I started using enrage and modifiers to spice up things after level 10 or so. Sure you dont need em but for me, a boring game is a game I wont play. While these additional settings makes the same boring game fun and a blast.

I m simply fascinated by the amount of power you get when you combine the correct gems and put em up strategically. I m also in awe about how strong the enemies become compared to "vanilla" runs. Lastly, I m not under the illusion that I will finish a map "perfectly" on my first run. It would involve studying and observing first so rather "play to finish" I "play to exceed" which means beating my previous record.

That seems to be your problem really. You just want to beat the game and it let you do it with minimal effort. But doing exactly that will result in you missing out 90% of the content. Your mistake is that you think there is NOTHING else when in reality its you holding yourself back.

JUust have fun :)

[daifukushiki]

I just want to know how to beat V11

[>_o]

But how do you know how many modifiers to make it a good challenge? If you don't do enough it is boring and easy. If you do too many it is boring and too harsh. This just seems like a tedious game. Other games devs balance this for you so you can just play the level and get a challenge that you might lose at first, but you know it is possible to beat... That is how it should be. This game expects you to use trial and error on a million things which is tedious. Also there isn't even any explanation or logic to how to build the gems. You get V levels where a set number of enemies attack and you have to beat them with 10 gems, and it doesn't tell you how to combine the gems. So you could spend years combining the gems in different ways until you come across the most powerful way to finally beat the level. Or you can just copy someone elses method which is lame. All this spells bad game to me.

[MTB-Fritz]

Well I usually push as much as I can, sometimes its too much or I didnt have my defenses build accordingly....in those cases I lose and try again. Apart from the battle traits you can affect your difficulty rating fluidly during the match by enraging enemy waves. This will increase monster base stats and their number.

Its probably personal taste but I enjoy watching HORDES of enemies (thousands upon thousands on my screen) marching against my towers and dying in numbers unthinkable. You ll have to have the right gem combinations at the ready in order to prevail. It soon becomes a resource management meta game where beating the waves is second nature.

How many battle traits can you activate?
Are your skills set up optimally for that map?
How much of your mana can you waste on enraging enemies?
How many enrages are doable?
How far can you push your previous highscore?

Suddenly a 15 wave map becomes a 90 wave map and each wave spawns 999 enemies with health bars in the billions.

EVERY game is trial & error. Some games have better tutorials but usually thats how you do it. Your own example supports that. Gems have particular abilities depending if you put em into a tower or a trap. The explanation comes in form of the tooltip you get by mousing over the gem. Applying gems might take a test run so you see in what situations they excell. Combining gems is an easy matter and follows as much logic as it can. Each gem has a particular ability, take 2 different gems and you get a single one with BOTH abilities (altho weaker then a pure gem). The tutorial shows you how to combine gems and gives you basic examples.

So you could spend years combining the gems in different ways until you come across the most powerful way to finally beat the level

So either succeed by accident or succeed by battle plan. The decision is yours. If you simply click randomly on gems then yeah....its how you describe. If you take a minute and THINK about what you want to accomplish tho you can generate a strategy that will eventually carry victory. Maps usually support LOTS of possible strategies. The higher you push the challenge the less options you have but I guess that holds true for every game out there regardless of genre.

Or you can just copy someone elses method which is lame. All this spells bad game to me.

Errrrr.....I dont know what kind of game you consider "well done" but I garantuee you regardless which title you come up with I ll be able to look up a cheat, a guide or general tips where I build on other peoples experience so EVERY game is just badly done according to your logic. If people are too lazy to learn a game and rather cheat....how does that make the game bad?

I would rather blame the people doing it but thats me.

If you are too impatient and/or lazy to learn this game then maybe Gemcraft isnt for you? Thats not a problem. Lots of people actually dont like tower defense. You coming to the forums and trying to blame a game for your own taste is strange tho IMO. Its okay to walk away or label the game "bad" for yourself just dont expect to concince others of your opinion when you dont know basic stuff.

[>_o]

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

EVERY game is trial & error.

No they aren't. Even in other tower defense games I can win most missions first attempt.

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

Combining gems is an easy matter and follows as much logic as it can. Each gem has a particular ability, take 2 different gems and you get a single one with BOTH abilities (altho weaker then a pure gem). The tutorial shows you how to combine gems and gives you basic examples.

No it is completely different to that. And follows no logic. If you pick up a crit gem and combine it with a poison gem and then a drain gem, it will be different if you combine them in a different order. Even if all the gems are exactly the same. That is the opposite of logic.

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

So either succeed by accident or succeed by battle plan. The decision is yours. If you simply click randomly on gems then yeah....its how you describe. If you take a minute and THINK about what you want to accomplish tho you can generate a strategy that will eventually carry victory.

That just isn't true. There is no logic to how gem combinations work and you have to get the exact strategy right to win some maps. You could do 100 attempts with different combinations and still lose. Winning by accident is not a good way to win. All of this is bad game design.

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

Errrrr.....I dont know what kind of game you consider "well done" but I garantuee you regardless which title you come up with I ll be able to look up a cheat, a guide or general tips where I build on other peoples experience so EVERY game is just badly done according to your logic. If people are too lazy to learn a game and rather cheat....how does that make the game bad?

You missed the point completely. My point is that ALL other tower defence games are beatable without too many attempts because it is down to the skill of the player in placing the right towers in the right places. You don't need to cheat because you can beat any mission. Some missions might take a few attempts until you figure it out, but you can see each time what works and what doesn't because the games are intuitive. This game isn't.

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

If you are too impatient and/or lazy to learn this game then maybe Gemcraft isnt for you?

How am I impatient or lazy? I played up to level 120 or something, most of those missions without having to think about anything. That isn't impatient or lazy. I just didn't like how the game works. And I have played more tower defense games than anyone in this forum, so it isn't that tower defense games are not for me, clearly they are. This is the only one I didn't like.

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

You coming to the forums and trying to blame a game for your own taste is strange tho IMO. Its okay to walk away or label the game "bad" for yourself just dont expect to concince others of your opinion when you dont know basic stuff.

Why is it strange? I am entitled to say I think a game is bad. You are the one trying to convince me it isn't, and you failed.

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

you dont know basic stuff.

What basic stuff don't I know exactly?

[MTB-Fritz]

No they aren't. Even in other tower defense games I can win most missions first attempt.

Good for you...did you try to say anything with that by the way? Is it because you cant in Gemcraft that it must be bad and have no logic? Certainly sounds like it.

No it is completely different to that. And follows no logic. If you pick up a crit gem and combine it with a poison gem and then a drain gem, it will be different if you combine them in a different order. Even if all the gems are exactly the same. That is the opposite of logic.

It IS logical, you simply dont know the rules, thats why it seems chaotic and willfull to you.....Math can be the same you know yet its the most logical thing. Order does play a role but if you put a gem together 4 times in a row using the same parts in the same order you WILL get the same result. Logic.....

You unwilling to see the logic doesnt mean it has none.

There is no logic to how gem combinations work

wrong

and you have to get the exact strategy right to win some maps

also wrong as long as we are talking about vanilla maps. You can pretty much "muscle" your way through all of them and have different approaches which will work. Only when you load up on modifiers do you approach a "ONE WAY ONLY" scenario.

You missed the point completely. My point is that ALL other tower defence games are beatable without too many attempts because it is down to the skill of the player in placing the right towers in the right places

Thats what baffles me because gemcraft is the EXACT SAME. Its funny that you say this yourself but it brings us to the point that you dont get the game therefore it must be bad.

How am I impatient or lazy?

You made that impression with your posts.

I played up to level 120 or something, most of those missions without having to think about anything

And you havent really break into the game yet :) That might be the main reason for the discussion here. I dont know.

Why is it strange? I am entitled to say I think a game is bad. You are the one trying to convince me it isn't, and you failed.

You are entitled to your opinion. You could ve written a review about it. Instead you came to the forum in order to convince others that your opinion is true. As its the forum you pretty much invited people to adress your claim. I did, others did too not agreeing with you. Please dont try to play the surpressed victim here. Your examples are flat out wrong and you just demonstrate your lack of patience by becoming aggrevated if something doesnt go your way.

Feel free to ignore my post or the game. I ll be off playing it and having fun :)

[>_o]

You need to google what logic means. And you could write a review instead of trying to convince me I am wrong.... I never said I was a victim of anything. And I haven't been aggrivated by anything. You seem to be desperate to troll but you can't.

[Morphic]

JD a écrit :

MTB-Fritz a écrit :

Combining gems is an easy matter and follows as much logic as it can. Each gem has a particular ability, take 2 different gems and you get a single one with BOTH abilities (altho weaker then a pure gem). The tutorial shows you how to combine gems and gives you basic examples.

No it is completely different to that. And follows no logic. If you pick up a crit gem and combine it with a poison gem and then a drain gem, it will be different if you combine them in a different order. Even if all the gems are exactly the same. That is the opposite of logic.

That's because you are probably fusing different Grade Gems with each other. If you take a Grade 2 Crit Gem and fuse it with a Grade 2 Poison Gem; you'll get a Grade 4 Crit Poison Gem. Now if you take that Dual Grade 4 Gem and fuse it with a Grade 2 Drain Gem ... it'll be crap and different because you just took a Grade 4 and fused with a Grade 2.

That's partly why I dislike using Tri-Color Gems. I feel Dual Gems are better. Furthermore fusing Crit and Poison sounds like it would be good ... but that's usually a horrible idea. In GemCraft fusing lowers a Gem's special effects. In this instance your Crit and Poison Dual will have significantly less Crit Chance % and Poison Dmg compared to a Pure Crit or Pure Poison. You'd be better off making a Pure Crit, throwing that in a Tower, then Dual'ing the Poison and Drain gem and throwing that in a Trap.(Since Traps increase Special effects)

Just because you don't understand how the game handles it doesn't mean it isn't logical.

JD a écrit :

That just isn't true. There is no logic to how gem combinations work and you have to get the exact strategy right to win some maps. You could do 100 attempts with different combinations and still lose. Winning by accident is not a good way to win. All of this is bad game design.

Gem Combo logic has already been explained. Also didn't you just say you enjoy TDs that "are like a puzzle"? Gee,

JD a écrit :

You could do 100 attempts with different combinations and still lose.

sure sounds like you need figure out the "puzzle" of that level.

JD a écrit :

My point is that ALL other tower defence games are beatable without too many attempts because it is down to the skill of the player in placing the right towers in the right places.

Don't make wild generalizations like the above. There are many Tower Defense games that are pure Grindfests that require you to repeat levels in order to gain the XP/Upgrades in order to get past other levels. Just as you have a plethora of TDs that are stupid easy you could place 3 Towers and AFK, only to come back to getting a perfect score.

JD a écrit :

I have played more tower defense games than anyone in this forum, so it isn't that tower defense games are not for me, clearly they are. This is the only one I didn't like.

Again with wild generalizations and this time assumptions. I highly doubt you've played "more than anyone" considering Tower Defense and Rogue-likes are my bread and butter for years. Hell if I count custom TD maps from my time in WarCraft 2, StarCraft and WarCraft 3 ... I've played thousands of TDs probably.


TLDR; If you still want to trashtalk GemCraft, its Players or tout how "experienced and awesome you are" at TDs ... then stop posting in here and find better TD games. I suggest "Revenge of the Titans" since that game naturally gets harder the better you do. Furthermore the enemy AI is smart and will actively avoid Tower Placements that wreck face. Oh, did I mention the mobs spawn randomly and don't follow set paths? Also only 1.2% of Players have beat all Missions on the Hardest Difficulty.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/93200/

[>_o]

No I said same grade. And I haven't trash talked anything. I just explained why I don't like this game and why it is different to all other tower defense games.

[zoutzakje]

Personally i feel that to get the most fun out of this game, you will need to run 2 seperate programs while playing gemcraft.
The first one is a calculator. Unless you're very good at math, having a calculator around helps you figuring out exactly how much damage your main killgem can deal, how much mana your next big combine will cost, etc.
The second one (and most important one) is the GemCombiner. A beautiful little program that does all the combining for you. Don't know how to create a great managem or killgem? Don't know how to combine it properly to get the most out of it? This program will do it for you. Simply select the category you want, choose an amount you can afford with your mana, put the appropiate gem(s) in the appropiate slot(s) in your inventory, hover your mouse above the gem in the lower right corner, press the 'g' button, then the '9' and watch the magic at work. I wouldn't have a clue how to combine properly manually. The GemCombiner does it for me.

Sure it may seem weird and off-putting that you need these programs running in the background in order to have a good time in gemcraft (well not nessecarily, but this seems to be true for most people), but it works. I have played other games that required external programs to play properly and I'm generally not a big fan. But in gemcraft it's opened up a whole new level of playing for me. Gotta try it before you judge it.

At lvl 120 you've barely scratched the surface of what this game has to offer, regardless of whether you've played all fields or not. I am currently about lvl 12,500 and i still feel like I'm just starting out. So many fields to play and trying to make it as far as possible on endurance runs, gaining insane amounts of exp, allowing you to make your skills a lot better after each run and do even better at the next.

What i suggest is to first study the Endgame guide. Even if you're not nearly high enough lvl yet to follow it closely, it gives you a number of goals to work towards and it gives a pretty good idea of how to get far in endurance runs (which is where most of the exp comes from by far). You don't have to follow the guide to the letter of course, it gives you guidelines. I did most of what the guide told me and then i gave it my own twist.
Then you put the difficulty on glaring or haunting and you put all the traits at 7. Hatred stays at 0 until you can beat haunting endurances. Use the GemCombiner and the calculator and enrage waves with a combination of G1 gems for beacon spawns and higher Grade gems to crank up the amount of monsters without cranking up their health to much. It takes a while to get the hang of it and find the right balance, but once you do the exp starts flowing in high numbers and your lvl will go up by hundreds per field, if not thousands.
All it requires is patience. A lot of patience.

Also, if there was no logic to combining in this game, a program like GemCombiner would never work. But it definitely does.

Anyways, hope this wall of text provided some kind of insight. Yes, this game is different than other TD games. But how would it be fun if they were all the same or similar?