What do you think the Federation's soldiers look like?

[Swing]

I was playing VC2 again last night and in 1937 the Empire is on the retreat. So if a VC4 was made or an extended DLC for VC I'm hoping you'd play one of the 2 superpowers. Since you always play the underdogs maybe you'd be playing as the Empire. What do you think the Federation would like? I have the artbooks except for VC2 and the only characters we know from the Federation are the ambassador from VC and an exchange student from VC2. Much has been said about the Empire but hardly any about the Federation. I'm guessing since thier flag has a nautical theme they have a decent navy and or landships. What you guys think?

[Haru]

Well, since no one in the series wears modern camouflage (except maybe the empire), there's a good chance they would wear the same colors as their flag. That is unless they decided to go with a more modern armor scheme with some dull flat grey. Their generals in that case would most likey dress in the nautical colors, although yeah, they probably do have some sort of navy judging by their flag, but who knows man. I don't know if SEGA intends to make a new game, I really really really hope they do, VC1 was good.

[Turtler]

Point of order: There's no Federal exchange student from VC2; the one you're thinking of is probably Helmut (Imperial) or Nahum (Dryer, which appears to be waaaayy too backward to fit with what we know of the Federation).

As for what Federal troops look like... I'll field this one. As somebody who's been playing them a fair bit in an online roleplay.

The colors of the flag probably wouldn't work. The average Imperial mook wears dull, flat grey and some of their officers (VC3's Lydia) use Habsburg/Bourbon white clothes (appropriately enough, given their inspirations...). So using White or Dull Grey would just be begging for friendly fire problems, and if there's one thing VC uniforms avoid it's that sort of confusion.

At most, I imagine things like the bright Whites (or Blues/Golds) would be kept to the parade grounds, ceremonial occasions, or civilian use (hence Townshend/ the Fed Ambassador).

For what it's worth, the approach I went with them basically went something like this:

Take Historical Western/Western Allied uniforms (from the 1860's or so to 1950's)

http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/green018.jpg

http://www.1zoom.net/Miscellaneous/wallpaper/226687/z238.5/%26original=1

http://www.wwiiimpressions.com/images/ARMY%20CAMO.jpeg

http://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2013/7/24/4/5/c/45c245f8-f486-11e2-830e-74b4f9f243b5.jpg

http://www.capturemyimage.net/wp-content/uploads/British-Army-Infantry-WWII-04.jpg


Then add the median between Halo UNSC uniforms, modern battle kit, andmodern Ballistic armor on one hand...

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120901173631/halo/answers/images/8/88/830px-UNSC_Army_variations.png

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs51/f/2009/277/1/7/Halo_3_Marine_WIP_2_by_Robotlouisstevenson.jpg

..... and 16th-17th century armor and uniforms (especially Full Plate armor) on the other.

http://steel-mastery.com/images/products/full/full-plate-armour-in-churburg-style-1.jpg

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/73072/73072,1319057583,8/stock-photo-full-plate-protective-armor-and-sword-of-medieval-warrior-86996246.jpg

http://arthurchappell.me.uk/arthur79.gif

http://arthurchappell.me.uk/arthur84.JPG

http://www.forensicfashion.com/files/1597DutchCuirassierArmorHiggins01.JPG

Mix (realy, throttle into the ground) well.

Then take what's left and apply a Color scheme with Green as the Primary Color, Blue as the Secondary, and Yellow/Gold as the Tertiary (Compare Gallia's Blue/Red/White).

Adjust coloration and camo according to the situation.

And you wind up with something like the helmets and kit on the sides of the middle in this "spam dump"

http://saint-zaby.deviantart.com/art/Spam-Dump-41-261907012

(Note that the image on the lef-t though not colored- was a VC'ized version of this picture, http://ironmikemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ww1-june-1918-u-s-marines-in-action-at-the-battle-of-belleau-wood-painting-by-tom-lovell1.jpg

Which features an American Marine bayoneting a German soldier in WWI).

My guess would be that's something of the lower/middle ground; I know my character probably looks a bit like a down-teched Master Chief-in-Gothic Plate. But that gives you some idea of how we saw it.

You'll also notice the different styles of helmets, most being based on the French Adrian, but there also being the Anglo-American Brodie. That was intentional because we figured the Federal nation states would not have one or two standardized sets of uniforms like the Imperials or Gallians do, but that they would be broken down on national likes (hence why you'd also see M1 helmets, Mk III helmets, and maybe more fantastic stuff like older renaissance helmets) look like that.

This was to convey the Federation's character from what we know of it, pay homage to its' various inspirations, and give people new things to look at (which is usually something people like).

I realize this all has basically no proof from the source materials, that there is plenty that could be different, and a lot of it boiled down to what I personally felt looked and felt appealing. However, I still stand by this on a couple different basises.

A: Worst case scenario, it's still as valid as anybody's else's out there, since there is literally no proof one way or another.

B: The color scheme is significantly distinctive from anything else we've seen. Greys, Blacks, Reds, and even Whites are associated with the Empire (and to a lesser extent Rebels). Blues, Whites, and Gold with Gallia.

In contrast, I haven't seen anything outside of Gallian Engineers that use Green in a significant fashion, and certainly not as the primary color. So using Green/Blue/Yellow works IMHO.

C: It stays true to what we know of the historical inspirations and the VC Design philosophy. In that it's a mish-mash of familiar, fantastic, and pragmatic. Of modern/early modern and medieval/renaissance equipment based off of one or more world war combatants.

Since Atlantic Federaton is based on the Western Allies of the World Wars and Cold Wars, having something that fits in with the setting but keeps a lot of the real world traits (dominate color as green or khaki, types of helmets, integration of modern and plate armor in one uniform) would make the most sense.

And it retains the secondary colors we've seen in the Federation so far (Atlantic Blue, Gold).

D: It serms as a pregmatic purpose. Like I said before, it's significantly unique enough to not get mistaken for anything else. But in addition, Green and Khaki are some of the best "natural" colors for camo in a war fought in Europe or something close to it (the others being Grey and Brown- the latter of which is partially what Khaki is).

So you could plausibly hide in a forest somewhere and wait for an Imperial patrol and not have them know you're there until they enter a glen and get shot to pieces.

Good luck trying that with big, clean, glaring WHITE or screamin' Red.

E: Thematically and tactically, it fits what (little) we know about the Federation's approach to the struggle with the Empire. Namely that while it tends to have the superior resources and funds, it is usually more "subversive" and unconventional compared to the Empire's powerhouse status in a straight up fight. While the Empire will outright invade your country if it can, or launch armored spearheads of nearly unmatched power, the Federation will send a few special agents into your rear to snipe at the infantry advancing behind, blow up supplies, and tweak the situation behind the scenes.

So while this design would probably consist of similar materials and function to Imperial ones (hence going with how from Gallia's POV, they're not that different), its' higher emphasis on camo and lack of the brightly-colored "nobelesse oblige" that the designers indicated was a factor in Rebel and Imperial uniforms points to that "sneakiness." And in universe, it is also designed to fit with the doctrine that accentuates those tactics and strategies.

F: In terms of design and eyecandy for those looking at it in the meta (you the reader and the hypothetical players), we figured a change from the norm would be more exciting than having another faction running around in white/yellow/grey (Imps, Rebs, I'm looking at you..) or Blue/Yellow.

G: I haven't heard or seen fo any better alternative, though that might just be my bias speaking.

So that's the approach we took with it and why. I hope you guys enjoyed.

As for Federal military strengths, we do believe that the Federation has a lock on naval supremacy. Hence the name, and the fact that in our fanon it actually has not only posessions/colonies/dominions/non-ruling property, but full fledged members (like some things in the Americans) overseas. And that keeping the sea lanes open is essential.

Though going off of canon, I don't think they have landships in the sense of the Marmota. From what we know of Federal armored doctrine, it largely runs off of Sherman Syndrome. It's the Empire that is more likely to churn out things we'd call landships.

If you read this all the way through, congrats and pat yourselfs on the bakc.


And before you ask..... Yes, my RP group and I do tend to overthink things a lot.....

[Swing]

Hey man I like your ideas. I've actually found miniatures that match up almost exactly with Gallian, Imperial, CR, Militia, and Nameless units if you're interested, but that's probably for another thread. I've been meaning to buy em and paint them up and have my own Gallian Army, Squad 7 etc... fighting Empire using 40k rules etc...

Remember that although there's a Europa... there could/couldn't be a North America, BUT there is VC's Version of Japan, you get an incite into his country by playing Shin and his character mission in VC3 (tries to commit hirikiri on himself lol).

Mind if I ask what you're playing?

[Turtler]

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

Hey man I like your ideas.

Thanks. Glad to know that somebody liked all of this wall of text and going over it.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

I've actually found miniatures that match up almost exactly with Gallian, Imperial, CR, Militia, and Nameless units if you're interested, but that's probably for another thread. I've been meaning to buy em and paint them up and have my own Gallian Army, Squad 7 etc... fighting Empire using 40k rules etc...

Interesting. Yeah, it might be worth making another thread. I take it you're using the "ONLY WAR" Modificaiton from /TG/?

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

Remember that although there's a Europa... there could/couldn't be a North America, BUT there is VC's Version of Japan, you get an incite into his country by playing Shin and his character mission in VC3 (tries to commit hirikiri on himself lol). by playing Shin and his character mission in VC3 (tries to commit hirikiri on himself lol).

Trust me, I am well aware. We have researched VC3 (and have a few members who have actually played it through, though I am not one of them). And while our Roleplay is Gallia and Gallian Civil War centric, we have spent a Lot of time worldbuilding outside of it (and Europa in general). So we've known about Shin for a long time.

While the counterpoint of the Americas (and other places like Africa) are basically invented out of whole cloth, that isn't the same for East Asia (or at least Japan expy). And we've spent a fair bit of time fleshing that out with what hints the canon does give us and a ton of real life history and a good dose of fantasy.

So our "Nippon" might not have the most original name, but we have a good deal of meat on it,, like we do the others.

Secondly, it's HARA, not Hiri. A's instead of I's for the first part.

So it's Hara-Kiri or Harakiri- plain-ol' Seppuku- that he tries to commit.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

Mind if I ask what you're playing?

How do you mean?

If you're talking about our Roleplay, it's this.

https://www.fanfiction.net/forum/Valkyria-Chronicles-Chronicles-of-Class-E/81347/

[Swing]

Sweet... Naw by 40k I mean with models. I might start a Tabletop Strategy topic I have a few limited edition models like Rosie who believe it or not has digi cami (dunno why militia has more armor and looks better than regular army), but it'd be cool to play table top strategy games with VC or make some kinda VC mod using Company of Heroes or something.

[Turtler]

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

Sweet... Naw by 40k I mean with models.

I don't really play tabletap, Period. I find it rather cumbersome and inconvenient, especially since I am usually on a schedule.

That said, I do find computer games quote interesting (obviously). So, a CoH mod sounds right up my ally. And we have semi-seriously considered one VC mod or another at times.

Hope you enjoy your games, though.

[Sir Fluffykins]

We won't see the Federation because the Empire has the "Western themed tanks, like the Sherman" and Gallia has the "German themed tanks". Where logically the Empire should have the Panzar looking tanks and Federation the American/British tanks.

Then again, if they were basing it on war time, Gallia would be invaded by the Empire, then Liberated by the Federation, with Squad 7 being rebels who blow up train tracks XD

[Turtler]

Publicado originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

We won't see the Federation because the Empire has the "Western themed tanks, like the Sherman" and Gallia has the "German themed tanks".Where logically the Empire should have the Panzar looking tanks and Federation the American/British tanks.

What.

Who told you the former?

Because I can guarentee you that the Imperial tanks look absolutely nothing like Western tanks outside of vaguely looking like a few early war French mediums/heavies. The Empire's tanks mostly look Very Soviet, and look closer to German (and Czech) ones than Western ones.

And besides, tanks aren't everything. Heck, they had a generic one for VC2 and I barely used it in most levels. And I'm far from the only one.

As for actual Federal tanks as far as fanon goes, yes we have largely based them on British and American tanks. But we've also taken a lot from other designs; mostly French ones by far (perhaps as much as the American designs) and Itlaian ones. Along with a fair ton of prototypes that were thrown around here and there during WWII, WWI, and the early Cold War.

Publicado originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

Where logically the Empire should have the Panzar looking tanks and Federation the American/British tanks.

Logically, the tanks should be designed to fit the combatant's situation and philosophy, as well as what they expect to be fighting in. The Panzers were designed as a result of Germany's situation (and largely stolen shamelessly from the Czechoslovaks when the Wehrmacht realized their first/second generation tanks were Horrendously Underpowered), which has close to nothing resembling the situation the Empire is in. Just look at a map.

Ditto how things like the Sherman, Mathilda, and Churchill were designed and re-designed to fit in with the military situation of the Western Allies, including how to adapt to changes that screwed over the previous ones.

Also, one of the other things that the Empire clearly resembles is the old Soviet (and to a lesser extent Tsarist Russian) Empire. Which is clearly shown by the insignea, the choice of color scheme, the map, and the economics (Ghettoization? Using slave labor as a major component of your economy anyone?). So one of the things it should look like are the Soviet armor.

Which they largely do, with a fair margin of difference to fit with artistic liscence, fantasy, and other influences.

Publicado originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

Then again, if they were basing it on war time, Gallia would be invaded by the Empire, then Liberated by the Federation, with Squad 7 being rebels who blow up train tracks XD

Depends on the definition of "basing it." I think it is clearly based off of the World wars, but that doesn't mean they have to take it as literally as that. Especially given how one of the larger inspirations seem to be Finland (who was a neutral to *Axis* nation in history).

[Sir Fluffykins]

Publicado originalmente por Turtler:

Write-up

Hmmm, was sure I read it somewhere, but hell if I can find it, so I'll just say I was mistaken.

For example, taking the ingame forces and looking at real world forces, I'd always assumed Gallia was based off France, but having just started playing, the placement on the map is more around Netherlands or Denmark. While the two super powers look like France and Germany

[Turtler]

Publicado originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

Hmmm, was sure I read it somewhere, but hell if I can find it, so I'll just say I was mistaken.

Huh. That's odd...

Here are a few images of Imp vehicles for comparison. Note that the link is to a NSFW site that contains a (SFW) part of the VC Artbook. Just plug into the address bar and delete the spaces.

http://g.e-hen tai.org/s/6e9462f0a4/762312-175

http://50.155.186.56:15555/h/0e1e75bfa1bc2aa72b851a73e53ec1acc8e8fb5c-341476-1200-1718-jpg/keystamp=1419164700-c73b6b6b98/171.jpg


Compare to these Soviet tanks.

http://worldwar2headquarters.com/images/TanksRussian/t28_2.jpg

http://www.bigscalemodels.com/tanks/t34-85/t34_1944858_tank.jpg

http://worldoftanks.com/dcont/fb/media/media/art_renders/t_34/wot_1024_768_t-34_eng.jpg

http://worldoftanks.com/dcont/fb/media/media/art_renders/t_28/wot_1024_768_t-28_eng.jpg

Publicado originalmente por Sir Fluffykins:

For example, taking the ingame forces and looking at real world forces, I'd always assumed Gallia was based off France, but having just started playing, the placement on the map is more around Netherlands or Denmark. While the two super powers look like France and Germany

Yeah, believe me; we've also spent some time and effort puzzling that out,a ndw e've had a fair bit of success. It helps reminding that while there are a lot of inspirations and things based off of real life things, there doesn't have to be a 1:1 correlation.

I can confirm that Gallia is partially based off of France; the uniforms and Town Watch helmets practically scream "WWI/pre-WWI France." But I can also confirm that it is partially based off of the Low Countries in terms of general power, layout, resources, etc.

But we've also figured that it is comparable to Poland and the Baltic States, considering placement (again0 for the latter, military doctrine (outside of Squad 7 of course...),some tech here and there, and the fact that it is a corrupt and oppressive dictatorship for most of the game..

As y ou yourslef noted, there is a fair amount of German influence (ironically), with the tanks just being the most obvious (also uniforms and the like), though that jockies with France and Czechoslovakia fo ra fair bit.

So the TL;DR is that it's a mish mash. The Empire is probably the single most visible case of it.

[Swing]

I wanna bump this topic because this guy has done some awesome research, unfortunately your links don't work. And although "Gallia" is a french word (famous WW2 French ship the Gallia was sank), and it is sandwhiched, with lowland ♥♥♥♥♥ and windmills like the netherlands, and a "FAKE" desert like in Poland. It's Germanic/Dutch in nature and Finland would be the closest that it comes to as a real world country. I have VC 1 and 3 artbooks and they contain a mixture of tanks and tank destroyers both used and unused during the game, however I know you can mod the game and play their tanks and would like to play the british versions with a turet on only one side. But it's a combination of German and Russian tanks is where they get their inspiration.

I do believe that the game also has many WW1 tie ins, and that since The Eastern Autocratic Empire was the name of Russia and the name of the Empire in the game that it's losely based on that except the weapons and soldiers have distinct german names. Definitely not WW2 Russia though.

As far as WW1 I would say Gallia would be Belgium flatout...

[Swing]

LOL I can't believe DEE WHY KAY EEE is censored out when you're talking about a real DEE WHY KAY EEE and not a lesbian!

[Turtler]

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

I wanna bump this topic because this guy has done some awesome research, unfortunately your links don't work.

Thank you for the compliment. As for the links not working, that's unfortumate; the ones I've tried work well enough.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

And although "Gallia" is a french word

Technically, "Gallia" is actually a Latin word that refers to what-is-now France. It only came into French after some ancient Italians came in, wiped out most of the pre-existing population, and settled.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

(famous WW2 French ship the Gallia was sank), and it is sandwhiched, with lowland ♥♥♥♥♥ and windmills like the netherlands,

Windmills are far less indicative than we would think; they've been up and down more or le ss the entire region from the Netherlands to deep in France and Germany more or less since they were invented.

As for lowland d-ykes, that is definitely more of a distinctly Dutch/Flemish thing but far less so than people would think.

In any event, I do think the Topography would be like a more river-run and coastal Poland, or the Low Countries/maritime France.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

and a "FAKE" desert like in Poland.

Two things:

Gallia actually has more than one desert. You only see one in VC1, but there's another, Southern one called the Daws that feature sin VC2.


Secondly: I don't think the Barious and Daws are "fake" deserts like the Błędów Desert; while neither of them are natural the Błędów was caused by humans screwing with the water table and plant life to the point where it cannot support 90% of the life natural to it or around it. And it's been trying to grow back ever since.

The Barious and Daws seem to have undergone a far more permanent and genuine transformation. Starting with intense, unnatural heat literally melting things in the soil down to make sand or long-gone glass. And by all accounts they've been stable for around two millenia.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

It's Germanic/Dutch in nature

This I'm more skeptical of. While one of my friends disagrees I do think it owes more to France than it does to Germany; though the Dutch is undeniable. And I do think people overlook Poland.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

and Finland would be the closest that it comes to as a real world country.

Maybe in terms of military and diplomatic accomplishments, I can agree. But there's more to a nation than what it does in war (and in terms of its' actual military preformance Gallia does not have a lot of similarity to Finland; tanks were one of the perennial weaknesses of the World Wars era Finns). Ditto the fact that the Finns were not a monarchy while Gallia is, and Gallia starts out authoritarian while Finland did not.

If anything I would say it's almost closer to an authoritarian classical Poland/Lithuania, using Czechoslovak military doctrine in topography more like the Low Countries.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

I have VC 1 and 3 artbooks and they contain a mixture of tanks and tank destroyers both used and unused during the game,

Do tell. We've also gottne most of the VC artbooks- including the one for VC3. So, Which VC1 artbook did you get?

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

however I know you can mod the game and play their tanks and would like to play the british versions with a turet on only one side. But it's a combination of German and Russian tanks is where they get their inspiration.

I agree they have German inspirations in Gallian tanks (especially the Edelweiss and its' later incarnations), but Russian is far more difficult. Especially since the Imperial tanks are more obvious versions of it.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

I do believe that the game also has many WW1 tie ins,

Agreed.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

and that since The Eastern Autocratic Empire was the name of Russia

*NOT* true.

The Tsarist Russian Empire certainly embraced autocracy more consciously and fervently than almost any other, but "Autocrat" remains only the style of the ruler, not the name of the coutnry. "The Eastern Autocratic Empire" was a fitting description for Russia (along with half the major powers in Central/Eastern Europe by the 17th century...), but it wasnever called that.

And most importantly, it's "The (Autocratic) East Europan Imperial *Alliance.*". Which points to something the Russian Empire was not and never was: A dynastic association.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

and the name of the Empire in the game that it's losely based on that except the weapons and soldiers have distinct german names. Definitely not WW2 Russia though.

Oh no, it definitely fits WW2 Russia. Not only in strategic position and outlook, but also in a lot of doctrine (especially regarding their armor, which is very Soviet-ish).

I agree that it has strong WWI comparisons- though ironically I think in many ways the most important comparison is to the Habsburg Empire- as well as WWII ones, but I also don't think the Russian influence is overwhelmingly powerful. In particular, the style of armor and equipment worn by Imperial soldeiers is very much Western Plate, not something the Russians used.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

As far as WW1 I would say Gallia would be Belgium flatout...

Doesn't really work as well. Belgium was- and is- a divided nation split between the Walloons and Flemings; Gallia is a single nation-state with a very strong sense of identity. Belgium was the product of British pressure, relied on alliances with foreign powers to retain independence, and did not hesitate to join the Western Allies when the Germans violated its' neutrality. Gallia is neutral even to the brink of military destruction.

Belgium was a strong and democratic constitutional monarchy by the time fo WWI; Gallia was a closet aristocratic military dictatorship led by a Prime Minister using the rightful government and heir as puppets.

The Belgian war effort was led by King Albert (the Great) from the initial invasion unto the end of the war; the Gallain war effort was led by.... nobody really. Which is why it does not fare very well.

I agree that Belgium is a major influence, but definitely not close enough to be "flatout." Offhand if we are talking about WWI, Serbia and Montenegro come to mind.

And more generally, the Swiss in particular do as well.

[Swing]

Of course the Swiss but I'm gunna be lazy and post this cuz I remember seeing an old map of Russia with it being lablebed "Autocratic so and so" https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1KMZB_enUS533US569&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Autocratic+Empire+of+Russia
I have both english VC1 and 3 books. Which ones you have?

[Turtler]

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

Of course the Swiss but I'm gunna be lazy and post this cuz I remember seeing an old map of Russia with it being lablebed "Autocratic so and so" https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1KMZB_enUS533US569&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Autocratic+Empire+of+Russia

It sounds more like an external applicaiton than something approved by the Russian government itself. In comparison to the Holy Roman Empire, which would frequently pop up as simply "The Empire" on a lot of old maps.

Though I do agree Russia is a massive inspiration for it.

Publicado originalmente por Swing:

I have both english VC1 and 3 books. Which ones you have?

You can see the online list here.

https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/81347/125287470/1/The-Briefing-Room-History-References-and-Lore-for-Valkyria-Chronicles

We have artbooks from all three, but we are missing the design archive for VC1, which is the more in-depth artbook. I'm just not sure which one you're referring to.