Lynn: The Best Early Game Character

[dragonlordsd]

Can we have a moment to discuss how awesome Lynn is?
First of all, she's a shocktrooper, which is way OP'ed in VC1.
Second, her native abilities are Darcsen Bond, Trooper Killer, Child of Nature, and Hardworker, which is the best skill in the game.
Third, she's super easy to get, you just have to get Karl killed, which.... I mean, seriously, it's Karl.

[just.dont.do.it]

SinisterSlay původně napsal:

How do you tell who gives you more CP?

Your initial troops (Alicia, Largo, Rosie) are all sergeants and give your 1 CP each when being deployed.

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Also, people like to talk a lot about characters "overpowering" other characters, but it brings only very minor differences in tactic, and makes missions only very slightly easier or harder. Character stats difference doesn't have THAT big impact on the game. You can finish all the missions using universally "worst" characters pretty much the same as using the "best" ones.

[AnemoneMeer]

just.dont.do.it původně napsal:

SinisterSlay původně napsal:

How do you tell who gives you more CP?

Your initial troops (Alicia, Largo, Rosie) are all sergeants and give your 1 CP each when being deployed.

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Also, people like to talk a lot about characters "overpowering" other characters, but it brings only very minor differences in tactic, and makes missions only very slightly easier or harder. Character stats difference doesn't have THAT big impact on the game. You can finish all the missions using universally "worst" characters pretty much the same as using the "best" ones.

Actually, it changes the game massively once you acquire the "Awaken Potential" order, which makes units incredibly likely to fire off all their passives in one go. A unit with super strong passives like Lynn is going to rip through a horde off of HP regen and free actions. Alicia becomes flat invincible. Edy can chain accuracy procs together and still keep a normalised damage profile, while being literally unable to die (Suicide rush strats become viable). Jann becomes the bane of armor everywhere. So on and so forth.

[just.dont.do.it]

Yes, but unless you decide to "cheese" some particular missions and go heavily for the awaken / procs combo, the overall tactics is still the same. You may end up taking 1-2-3 more turns because you won't kill stuff as fast as you potentially could, that's all the difference it makes (it's not even enough to make reaching A rank hard).

And abusing awaken is hardly any different from abusing other mechanics, such as scout rush.

[AnemoneMeer]

Every unit in the game has procs though. Where do you draw the line. Amplifying the best of the best will create a notable difference compared to the others.

Scoutrush is blatantly not intended and nerfed into oblivion in the later games. Procs... individual procs were modified, but the concept remained the same for all of the games.

[busards]

AnemoneMeer původně napsal:

Strong willed is a proc that goes off AFTER you start your charge, while born leader goes off before, letting you plan your action around it.

You should learn the activation and deactivation conditions of the potentials.

Strong Willed can activate every time a sight line turns red and never deactivates. By using terrain it is possible to trigger it before you start your charge (by placing yourself behind a tree or something and showing/hiding yourself to make a sightline turn red/yellow until it triggers) and once it has triggers, it will remain active when you charge the enemies.

Born Leader can activate when you enter at less than 100 range from an ally while having at least 3 allies at less than 100 range from you. And it deactivates as soon as you don't have at least 3 allies at less than 100 range from you. I don't know if you realize but 100 range is about grenade range. Not only you need 3 allies to activate it but as soon as you start charging the enemies and distance yourself from those 3 allies, it will deactivate and you won't have the defense bonus anymore!

[busards]

just.dont.do.it původně napsal:

Character stats difference doesn't have THAT big impact on the game. You can finish all the missions using universally "worst" characters pretty much the same as using the "best" ones.

Some potentials do make a big difference.

The most obvious is Ultimate Anti-Armor that allows Jann, Audrey and Elysse to one-shot up to medium tanks from front where other lancers need 3+ shots... I'm sure you can see how battles can be a lot easier when you can one-shot every tank without needing to get to their radiators?

[Harukage]

The game is easy anyway. I am actualy ignoring potentials and just fielding chars i like.

[AnemoneMeer]

Grenade range can oft be enough to wade into the opening salvos and start killing when hopping the baricade and praying for strong willed to proc risks injuries too severe to continue the murder chain. Lategame weapons have some pretty scary ranges too, which makes it veeery easy to use Born Leader. Units with it are perfect for being picked first to mimimize incoming damage.

Yes, strong willed is better whe it goes off, but born leader tells you first "Hey, you can jump this barricade and go for it" while hoping for an awaken potential strong willed proc has actually gotten Rosie put into the blender a few times and caused save/load issues.

If we're talking shock trooper rush born leader proc, most of your incoming damage will either be CQC shocks, who entered your range, or scouts, who can pelt you from a decent distance even with imperial weapons. Gallian weapons, ESPECIALLY the later ones are long enough range to crush imperials horribly.

We can more or less discredit all "But you clear the map faster by taking a strong willed character and zerging like a machine" under the "Alicia does this better" clause. In terms of where shocktroopers excel, namely chain killing, Born leader can let them kill a few targets with a defense proc you KNOW you have NOW, over one you SHOULD get later.

If you have a tree or assured terrain to exploit with strong willed, then yes, but lets just take DLC shocktrooper mission as an example. If strong willed does not proc, you are SCREWED. This leaves it as RNG based, even if you can in... probably a number of high end strategies exploit terrain to assure procs. Meanwhile, Born leader, while it is not up all the time, is very very useful for its reliability, especially later when ranges are far extended from early game.

I do have terrible luck getting strong willed to actually go off when simply attacking though, so I am probably biased due to the pile of dead Rosie when Edy/Vyse survived it from BL soaking the initial burst.

[busards]

No, really, Strong Willed is so much superior to Born Leader that I don't even know why you try to argue.

You even complained yourself that Rosie needed a trooper for her Big Sister potential... and here Born Leader needs not only 1 but 3 allies nearby and it's all good? I never have 3 allies near my shocktroopers unless it's the very start of the bettle and there are no enemy close enough to intercept me while Born Leader not deactivating. I've played the game on PS3 a lot, and I mean a lot, and I have never seen Born Leader triggers and make a difference because it pretty much always deactivated before I entered enemy interception fire.

I don't think you realize that having 3 allies within 100 range of Edy is a huge requirement. Not only having them to trigger the potential but always remaining within 100 range of every each one of those 3 allies to keep the effect... it almost never happens. Sure the potential seems to trigger a lot with awaken potential but it deactivate as quickly if you don't pay attention (there's no sound to tell when a potential deactivate).

I'm pretty much convinced that you only saw it trigger a lot and assumed that you had kept the effect but I would bet the potential had deactivated long before the first enemy started shooting at you.


The best offensive trooper potential is Fearless Will. It's the same activation condition as Vyse's Challenge Lover, except it gives a better boost on both attack and defense.
Fearless Will: +60% vsPers and +60% defense
Challenge Lover: +40% vsPers
Born Leader: +40% defense

What takes 2 potentials for Vyse only takes one potential for Jane, Mica and/or Nina (By the way, Nina also has Double Attack same as Vyse, Country Bred same as Edy and Super Damage same as both Vyse and Edy. Nina is a combination of Vyse and Edy without the bad potentials).

But Strong Willed is also a very powerful potential when it comes to charging through strong interception fire (especially on expert skirmish maps where Alicia doesn't have access to orders or on a level 1 challenge run).

[AnemoneMeer]

Again, bad luck and a hell of alot of dead Rosie is probably coloring my view quite alot. Seriously, the amount of times I've seen her get dropped in scenarios where other characters had been doing it reliably.

Born leader can proc off of anything, which is nice because of the game favoring scouts, and easily enabling combined arms situations. Personal bias comes in here in that I tend to be light on the shocktroopers and heavier on scouts.

I'm actually referring exclusively to cover hop and opening salvo effects. I tend not to run out into giant bullet walls. Strong willed is better at it, but being not dead is better than that. Running across the field with Born leader isn't going to happen, but if you're in a scenario where you actually seriously need a defense bonus to do it. Knowing you have it first means alot more than trying to shift around to force it to proc while being butchered. DLC shocktrooper mission comes to mind where you need the proc to happen and it just does not seem to want to happen much. Plenty of instances in 8B of "hop cover, do not get strong will, dead Rosie within milliseconds" when I was trying for a rush, where Vyse and Edy were giving me advance warning of if one of them could cover hop.

I actually didn't have buff %'s known. So yeah, good to know.

[Ponyeater]

AnemoneMeer původně napsal:

SinisterSlay původně napsal:

How do you tell who gives you more CP?

Can they be dismissed from your army? If yes, No CP. If no, CP.

Rosie has A-Team firing issues without her passives going off. Many of which demand her to be in the thick of allies, which makes chain killing with her a pain. As opposed to Lynn who is a walking god, Edy who has far better and more reliable accuracy buffs, Vyse, who is like Rosie with better stats and effectively invalidates her. Jane, who far outstrips her in terms of damage potential. The list goes on. Honestly, Rosie's base stats are kinda awful.

Largo loses out to other Lancers who get better procs than him. Big-hearted is nice and all, but Anti-tank work isn't exactly the most dangerous job unless you're running him into a horde of troops with a weapon that will work just as well after the horde has been sniped/shocked/scoutrushed/mortar'd out. You want kill speed, and others deliver it far better than a character with no notable damage increasing sources.

Even if the wiki is wrong, which it appears to be, Rosie still suffers from a serious dearth in useful perks for her job, which is chain killing as a frontline. Strongwilled helps, undercover fire helps, and double attack can help, but that's about it. Compare that to the rest of the list and she comes up short. Almost all her stuff will ONLY fire on first turn, or relies on specific situations to proc it, with the exception of strong willed and double attack. Even then, strong willed is a proc that goes off AFTER you start your charge, while born leader goes off before, letting you plan your action around it. After awaken potential enters play, she gets a bit better, but only for that first two bullet salvos. After that, only strong willed and double attack is really going off. Undercover fire too, map dependant, but that's not much compared to Vyse proccing a ton of attack boosts every move and obliterating everything in his cone of fire and double attack atop that.

I agree. It's one oversight of the original developer team in my eyes. They should have made it possible to remove Largo and Rosie and rename two other characters to leaders / CP units. They're really annoying characters, too. I don't like them. And they take two spots that could be filled with characters you love.

What a shame. :(

[busards]

AnemoneMeer původně napsal:

if you're in a scenario where you actually seriously need a defense bonus to do it. Knowing you have it first means alot more than trying to shift around to force it to proc while being butchered.

You could also use a defense order.

All Units Defend order only costs 2 CP and gives +10 defense to all your units. It turns every scout into a trooper and every trooper into a god; even better the effect remains during the enemy following turn.


Also Rosie doesn't need to be butchered while trying to force Strong Willed, see this video from Lebowski1:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoIgGmsSAkw&list=UUo2Ss8v3-dNupqnYabQnCpQ
Rosie uses 2 CPs at the beginning and at around 5:20, triggering Strong Willed each time, killing 7 enemies all by herself.

[dragonlordsd]

Yeah, balancing in VC 1 was.... all over the place. Outside of the ridiculousness of Armor Techs, 2 did a lot better, although from what I've heard 3 went and broke the balancing all over again.

In my humble opinion, Rosie is just a necessary character. I don't really care how good or bad her stats are, she's a sergeant, you have to use her to get her CP, and that's that. She's not bad (not when compared with some characters) but she's not OP'ed either.

[AnemoneMeer]

*Ran out of AP attempting that on a different map*

I think it's my luck talking at this point.

[HunterSeeker]

OMG i just unlocked this imba character