Sniper / Mortar / Artillery Support orders

[Histidine]

Is there a scenario where I'd actually consider using these?

Going by a test run on the Outskirts of Bruhl hard skirmish, they seem to do the following:

• Sniper: 100 damage to single target, 2 CP
  
• Mortar: 200 damage to targets in a small area, 3 CP
  
• Artillery: 100 damage to all targets, 6 CP

Which strikes me as singularly useless, even early game and even if the CP costs were reduced.
So far as I can see, you want to build your soldiers to be able to kill any given target in a single move anyway, so it's not like the support orders would improve your kills/CP ratio even if they were free. And non-tank enemies regen, so there's no point in trying to wear them down over several turns. On top of that, Mortar/Artillery Support can't destroy cover or damage tank hulls (or even gatling guns).

So, out of curiosity: does anyone use them?

[DoomyDoom]

If you're the type who likes efficiency, then anything more than 1 CP per infantry kill and 2 CP per "tank" kill (including turrets and such) is generally inefficient.
This generally includes per-cast orders in calculation. For example if you cast defense boost for 2 CP on someone and kill 2 tanks in 2 more moves, that makes 4 CP for 2 tank kills, which is about as efficient as it gets.

[busards]

They are quite situational.


The most useful IMO is mortar support.

It does AoE damage (meaning you can hit multiple target) and does enough damage to be meaningful. It can kill enemy snipers and/or do enough damage to finish off wounded enemies and/or do enough damage to crouched enemies that you could finish them off from a safe distance without needing to blow their cover first.

For example, on chapter 12 you can use it on the enemy snipers on the windmill, on chapter 14 on the enemy sniper on the cliff, on chapter 15 on both snipers behind selvaria, etc... Sure 3 CPs to kill 2 snipers may seem costly but in the cases of chapter 12 and 14, your own snipers don't have enough accuracy to ensure the kills (and there is a very low chance the enemy snipers may dodge too) and on chapter 15, you can't even safely aim at them because Selvaria is keeping watch. With the order though, for the cost of only one more CP you can ensure both snipers dead.
Another example is the last hard skirmish, if you aim it at the leader enemy lancer in their main camp, you can kill both enemy snipers and wound 5 other crouched enemies enough that a sniper can finish them off while they're still crouched.

It's balance between CP cost and reliability. 2 CPs with no insurance the enemy will die (miss, evasion) or 3 CPs and the insurance they will be dead.


Sniper support is the same (CP cost versus reliability) but cheaper, weaker and single target.

If you wound an enemy enough that he would be left with less than 100 HP, you can use that order to finish him off. Sure it costs 1 more CP that finishing off that enemy with someone else but in exchange, you can get some advantages out of it:
- the enemy will die for sure (no risk him dodging and you suffering the counter-attack)
- if you had no enemy who could outrange/flank that enemy, you can kill him with the order without suffering damage from interception fire (especially if that enemy had a status down weapon)
- you don't have to use one action from your units meaning you successfully get rid of an enemy in your path while still having all your units at full AP for your next move. You don't hinder someone mobility for a kill that may end up in an evasion and your unit having to end its turn right there with crippled AP for the remaining of the turn.


Artillery support... well... IMO it can do more harm than good (just like reckon request).

The reason? When you use it, it damage every single enemy, even the hidden ones, and as a result they are considered "spotted" and yet "not yet really spotted". Meaning tif an enemy is in grass he won't show on the map after using the order but as soon as you select/move an unit that gets a clear view on that enemy (no matter the range), that enemy will be immediately spotted.

Why is it bad? Because hidden enemies don't intercept until you spot them. Take Rosie's report for example. A lot of attack down enemy troopers in grass. Best way to kill them? Flamethrower, range 90. Enemy range 200. If you start spotting the enemies at more than 90 range, they will shoot your trooper with attack down and you won't be able to one-shot them anymore with your flamethrower. Usually you want hidden enemies in grass to remain hidden until you can kill them (which is also a reason why I consider Lynn or other troopers ambush spotter a not-always-beneficial potential).

Furthermore, its 6 CP cost is a real deterrent. So, yeah, no use of artillery support for me.

[Histidine]

Escrito originalmente por busards:

Thanks for the detailed insights, really helpful! I'll definitely have to consider Mortar Support for those listed battles at least.

[CloudSeeker]

Mortar Support is by far the best of those things. It can actually kill an enemy and not just harm them. Its very useful when enemies are all at the same place. For example: kloden wildwood in skirmish when you are just about to take the base. There are 4 enemies behind cover. If you do not have a flamethrower you can just send a mortar shell in there and kill all of them and run in with a scout. It also blow up cover for any assult after that.

Sniper support to me is useless. I rather use a normal sniper and snipe him with then just gracing him. It can be good but I never had to use it, its at least better then Artillery support.

Artillery support is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ worthless. 6 points to just damage everything on the map? By the time you get to them they will have regened it again.

[wboson]

I really was wondering about usefulness of orders myself, tried couple of them out just for fun.

Tank attack- still made same amount dmg with Largo- useless
Sniper Attack- made less dmg as with sniper with custom made and given as decoration sniper rifles- useless
Defence boost- better use that extra CP to take enemy units down thus reducing 50% incoming fire- useless haven´t even tried

It would make sense, if they were free of CP and restricted only 1 order per Mission.

[Sleepy205]

Escrito originalmente por wboson:

Defence boost- better use that extra CP to take enemy units down thus reducing 50% incoming fire- useless haven´t even tried

Defense Boost is a very useful order, along with Caution (if said charatcer does not have Resist Crossfire potential). Those two orders plus Awaken Potential are what allow Scout Rush possible in the first place.

Evasion Boost is the one that is really situational. It improves the chance of ducking enemy attacks. Unless your unit is exposed during enemy's turn there is no reason to use it. If you aren't confident of finish off an emey within 1 CP better to use Neutralize order instead.

[Drobodur]

I used mortar support quite a lot. It usually kills scouts and snipers quite reliably, without geting - dmg from cover.
As example - You have one overextended scout, and want to rush the enemy camp, but there are two enemies in cover there - scout and stormtrooper.
In this situation - mortar strike kills scout, and leaves stormtrooper with enough hp to be killed by your scout relatively safely. And you will need to triger scout action, to take this camp anyway - may as well shoot.

But yea, when you consider OP combos, like Alicia with all 8 potentials + Awaken Potential on turn 1 + ZM-8 gun (scout challenge DLC), wich can solo clear like half a map in one turn (with all actions, case double movement resets AP this turn to full) ...

But still - options are good, and noone will say a word, about how you prefer to play.
VC 1 - was one of the first games, were I didn't feel the urge to restarts mission, if something went horribly wrong (only if someone actually dies for real). Instead - I rolled with it and had fun, case there are lots of ways to turn things around.
DIrects damage orders - is one of those things.