Why enemy has unlimeted amount of shots during my turn?

[TRJoker]

Thaught this is a good game .... bought it cause of the good reviews.
Well ... I now played it for several hours ... and what I really dont understand is, why can I only fire 5 shots per round, the enemy can fire unlimeted rounds.
If you dont finish your turn immediately after shooting, you for sure get killed cause the enemy goes on shooting and shooting and shooting ... until you are dead.
I intially even dont knew that, but then i went for a coffee during my turn and came back ... seeing Welkin is dead ... wtf, I thaught, the game should just have stoped after my turn, waiting for my next move
Then I realized the above mentioned circumstances and .... well, thats a stupid, totally weird and cheap mechanism.
So I really wonder why nobody in his reviews mentioned this.
Cause thats really bad design.
So is it a bug?
Or is it meant like this, so to make you rush your turn, hammering the B Button on your pad as fast as you can after your turn.
If its really like this, sorry this game then is one of the worst "tactical, turnbased" (it even dont deserve that name then) RPG of my entire career as a gamer.
So I hope its a bug and there is a fix ....

[Prolence]

The game is turn based strategy in a way, but as far as I noticed in reviews (mostly watched those during PS3 release so can't say about more recent reviews released), they pretty clearly stated that during your turn after you have already selected your unit, the game changes to third person real time movement. What comes to enemies have unlimited ammo, that I can relate to and agree to a degree, but they only shoot you when you use/move that particular character and they see you. Otherwise your character will only get shot if either:

a) It's enemy's turn and they decide to target your character.
b) They are shooting your other character that you use at that moment and the other is in the line of fire.

Also as a personal note, I suggest not using Scouts for "head on" combat if there is even one shocktrooper against you, they tend to die before you reach the cover or get past enemies. Shocktroopers with good passive skills helps with that issue a lot, as they can take quite a bit of damage before they'll fall.

So as far as as the gameplay goes, it's most likely "working as intended" as long as it happens within above mentioned reasons. It plays quite a bit different from normal turn based strategy titles as it mixes that third person real time movement when you command your unit, so there's pretty much this "you love it or you hate it" mentality with most who plays the game.

Hopefully that cleared it up a bit.

[Jackal]

its not a bug i played this on ps3 when it first came out and that flaw was terrible, i hated that part of the game. it was very much artificial difficulty

[TRJoker]

Thx for the answer, but my enemies also fire at me when I do not move.
Very simple to get Welkin killed.
Just wait 30 seconds during your move.
First mission, take welkin, move him behind the first sandbag, get cover and shoot ... do not hammer B directly after the enemy did his5 "revenge" shots ... and the enemy will keep on firing at you 5 shot rounds until you are dead,
Even if you just do nothing.
Sorry, thats crap ... even more crap then the ridiculous stupid ranking system which rewards rushing through the levels with only one char ... this has nothing to do with a "tactical turnbased rpg, this is only another stupid action RPG.
Really ask myself how this game could get this amount of positive reviews, but its allways the same, install some BIG anime tits inside a game and it might be the biggest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ever, ppl give it positive reviews.

[Petralicious]

It's interception fire. Your units do it as well, exactly how the enemies do (fire a clip, reload, fire again until target is dead or out of sight/range).

Then there's... uh... normal fire. You fire a clip and get return fire if the target is still alive and has a weapon capable of doing so under the circumstances of that moment.

I'm sure it's explained in the tutorial..?

Anyways, don't run into lots of enemies on alert and ready to shoot on sight, should be common sense.
EDIT: And don't stand in front of them either. This isn't FE or XCOM, this game has action elements and... welp, seriously, without interception fire you could just roam free around the entire map. Seems pretty OP to me.

[Avenyet]

Just keep behind the enemy they wont shoot at you.

its also an amzing defence if you place one of you shock troppers in a place out of sight but the enemy has to walk down and you will kill them all before they can attack!

[Prolence]

Oh that's what I meant above, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. So what I meant was that during your turn when you use the character, no matter if you move or not but as long as you are using that character, the enemies will react if they see you.

Personally I found it easier to just leave the shooting as the last part after everything and then hammer the end turn button (playing with mouse/keyboard combo myself), but it hasn't been an issue unless I throw my Scout/Lancer in front of a Shocktrooper enemy with a machinegun that kills me in an instant (so many deaths due to that at first ).

It helps a bit if you try to group "friends" (those names that they have on their profiles) with eachother, as they tend to give nice backup fire and combine their fire with yours when you shoot without losing their turns. So that might ease a bit to overcome that, if you are willing to continue further. I can see why some pople hate it, though.

[your.sheepy]

I don't think they explained it the manual or in any tutorials, to be honest. But it is quite obvious, it should be learned right after "when you get close, enemy shot you" - "... and they stop shooting only when they can't shot".

1. When you shot in your turn, you can take your time and aim for the head. You get 5 shots.
2. When they shot in their turn, they also get 5 shots. (Troopers got 20. Yours too.)
3. When you shot in their turn, you don't aim but you can fire 5 shots after 5 shots, as long as they are in action.
4. When they shot in your turn, they can fire 5 shots after 5 shots, as long as you are in action.

Yes it is unfair. The system is biased towards you, who already have better range and better damage, by giving you the ability to aim for the head. If you must ask, their sniper actually get less ammo than you, and their tank has less mortar than yours too.

You can always aim or even press Esc when you are under fire. The whole world will freeze. You can take your time to decide what to do. About as unfair as it can get.

[TRJoker]

Interception fire is ok, and was a big part of for example Xcom and made also a big part of the tactical depth of this kind of games .... BUT!!!! without a unlimeted amount of shots.
Turnbased means there is a limeted amount of actionpoints/actions I can spent/ execute per turn ... so the way its here means, attaker have limeted amount, defender has unlimeted amount.
Makes no sense at all ...
Sorry ...
Its stupid, nothing else ...
But ok, I wont complain anymore ... its the way it is and there seem to be a lot of ppl that are happy with it
But I will write a review now ... to tell ppl like me that this is not a turnbased .... and even less a tactical game.
Its a good and beautyful Anime Graphics Novel with a bad action shooter part.
Wouldn´t have bought it, if I would have known before ....

[your.sheepy]

Originally posted by ;412449508290344713:

Personally I found it easier to just leave the shooting as the last part after everything and then hammer the end turn button (playing with mouse/keyboard combo myself), but it hasn't been an issue unless I throw my Scout/Lancer in front of a Shocktrooper enemy with a machinegun that kills me in an instant (so many deaths due to that at first ).

Only tanks kill you in an instant and only in high frame rate. Lancers has so high health that one full volley cannot down them without (or even with) lucky headshots. Scouts can keep distance and run fast to reduce the number of hits, and usually has enough AP to approach them safely from behind.

Originally posted by ;412449508290344713:

It helps a bit if you try to group "friends" (those names that they have on their profiles) with eachother, as they tend to give nice backup fire and combine their fire with yours when you shoot without losing their turns. So that might ease a bit to overcome that, if you are willing to continue further. I can see why some pople hate it, though.

Grouping friends together only help you *attack* but won't help you *survive*, neither from interception fire nor from active fire. And you don't need friends; all your scouts and troopers will team attack if they can and are in range. Friend only grant a accuracy bonus so minor that no one can tell you how much it is.

[your.sheepy]

Originally posted by TRJoker:

But I will write a review now ... to tell ppl like me that this is not a turnbased .... and even less a tactical game.
Its a good and beautyful Anime Graphics Novel with a bad action shooter part.
Wouldn´t have bought it, if I would have known before ....

Each tactical game has their own rules. You just need to learn how to use the unlimited ammo to your advantage, finding the right position. Failing to learn that does not make the game non-tactical.

Starting as soon as Chapter 2, some enemies will run to their target no matter what, and you can use your unlimited interception to drop them without spending a single action. I killed 4 that way, exactly half, and in Chapter 6 I killed 5 enemies off turn the first turn, almost their whole assault squad.

[TRJoker]

Maybe, but for me "just finding the right position" is not what I understand under tactical turnbased ... (a game in which i have to savespam to see how the enemy moves will never be tactical ...)
Thats try and error.
But many ppl missunderstand what tactical or strategical means.
It has not much to do with try and error ...

[your.sheepy]

Originally posted by TRJoker:

Maybe, but for me "just finding the right position" is not what I understand under tactical turnbased ...
Thats try and error.
But many ppl missunderstand what tactical or strategical means.
It has not much to do with try and error ...

No, this is not XCOM tactic. It doesn't force failure after failure to you and count that as a challenge. But it is not totally try and error, either.

It is observe enemy behaviour (some players find it difficult), then do range calculation and angle calculation at tactical level, and action allocation at strategic level. That is how I got my positions.
I hand draw VC battle map so that I can formulate my action plan while I'm away from home. Hard to say it's trial and error when there is no computer to play it out.

[Ekimmak]

It's the blitz system. And I've seen games pull off far worse attempts at a mix of action strategy.

[DoomyDoom]

Originally posted by your.sheepy:

It is observe enemy behaviour (some players find it difficult), then do range calculation and angle calculation at tactical level, and action allocation at strategic level. That is how I got my positions.

Very much this. You're supposed to plan things out on a map first, and then you spend CP to enter Action Mode and... take action, rather than stand and think what to do.

If you bother to observe and learn ranges and angles, you can tell presisely which enemies are going to fire at you at which points of the map. Hell, you can plan your entire turn ahead with regards to who goes where and what he does there. Well, there's RNG so you might have to plan some contigencies, but nevertheless you can very much plan. And when you dig deeper you can somewhat predict enemy turns too.

Bottom line - this game has a much steeper learning curve than it seems, and it is entirely player's fault for approaching it as a "pure" turn-based strategy ("pure" meaning being able to take all the time in the world thinking under any and all circumstances).

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

Originally posted by DoomyDoom:

Originally posted by your.sheepy:

It is observe enemy behaviour (some players find it difficult), then do range calculation and angle calculation at tactical level, and action allocation at strategic level. That is how I got my positions.

Very much this. You're supposed to plan things out on a map first, and then you spend CP to enter Action Mode and... take action, rather than stand and think what to do.

+1