Underground levels ?

[Ancamarth]

OK.
I see games like Dwarf Fortress, After Th Collapse, even Cataclysm DDA... all of them have the ability to do underground levels, or floors, that sort of thing...

This doesn't seem to be the case for Rimworld at all, while this game too has a nice depth of gameplay in its own way.

Are there MODS to add 3D to our maps? Is it even doable, one way or another? Or floors?
Because somehow it can limit the fun, or the amount of gear and food, etc.
I'm not sure if the game was designed to have hundreds of colonists, but I'm curious if it wouldn't be fun to try it

[svlla]

yes there's a z level mod, its ok
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2888943559

[The Blind One]

I really hope they add at least an underground layer and a 2nd floor layer at some point.

The underground layer would be soooooo useful especially for dirtmoles / vampires and other undergrounder types and the 2nd floor layer could be incredibly neat to build defense towers with or workshops / bedroom combinations.

It would allow for much more varied base designs and structures and maybe even discard the whole killbox system if we had proper guard towers and walls that functioned like actual defensible wall structures. It could be interesting to see raiders with jet packs fly over your walls for example or see tribal raiders bring ladders to storm your walls.

I don't need 50 layers. I just want an underground layer and a 2nd layer

It could be balanced by the fact that underground has the same chance for insect spawns as when you build underneath a mountain for example and second floors would require additional support structures or materials. It's strange that you can build the same size rooms with wood and steel. Giving each material its own 'roof support' value would encourage people to build more with steel or plasteel if it allowed for larger and/or more tall constructions.

[FALKE]

Originally posted by The Blind One:

I really hope they add at least an underground layer and a 2nd floor layer at some point.

The underground layer would be soooooo useful especially for dirtmoles / vampires and other undergrounder types and the 2nd floor layer could be incredibly neat to build defense towers with or workshops / bedroom combinations.

It would allow for much more varied base designs and structures and maybe even discard the whole killbox system if we had proper guard towers and walls that functioned like actual defensible wall structures. It could be interesting to see raiders with jet packs fly over your walls for example or see tribal raiders bring ladders to storm your walls.

I don't need 50 layers. I just want an underground layer and a 2nd layer

It could be balanced by the fact that underground has the same chance for insect spawns as when you build underneath a mountain for example and second floors would require additional support structures or materials. It's strange that you can build the same size rooms with wood and steel. Giving each material its own 'roof support' value would encourage people to build more with steel or plasteel if it allowed for larger and/or more tall constructions.

But there are a few mods in the workshop that add exactly (if I remembered corect) what you are saying.

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by Elster:

But there are a few mods in the workshop that add exactly (if I remembered corect) what you are saying.

I want it vanilla and I want it now!

Jk but the Z levels mod isn't very friendly with other mods as it really requires a direct implementation into the base game to really function well. There's also no support for the other Z levels in terms of raiding and/or other mechanics.

It's a neat mod but it's mostly in alpha at this point as it's too big of a project for a single modder to really get it done properly.

It would function so well with Save Our Ship too if it allowed for the ability to construct multiple ship decks just think of the possibilities!

[FALKE]

Originally posted by The Blind One:

I want it vanilla and I want it now!

Jk but the Z levels mod isn't very friendly with other mods as it really requires a direct implementation into the base game to really function well. There's also no support for the other Z levels in terms of raiding and/or other mechanics.

It's a neat mod but it's mostly in alpha at this point as it's too big of a project for a single modder to really get it done properly.

It would function so well with Save Our Ship too if it allowed for the ability to construct multiple ship decks just think of the possibilities!

Yeah, would be great to see the devopers update with floors.
Intresting, will it be pay to play add-on/dlc or just a free update?

[biomike]

Z level mods just end up generating a new map thats 100% underground
They wont add z levels to the base game cause they will need to re-write a ton of code for pathing and shooting to work starting from scratch

[Ancamarth]

Yes. The fact of not using our previous game, the usual instability of mods, the fact that it is not included with the risks (including vanilla insects), the interface which will not be fully adapted to the creation of the different levels... all this means that the existing mod will not excite me, and that I will continue to wait a bit before reactivating my games for good.

Because once you've tasted the games with an infinite number of levels (underground or else), with its dangers, and its possibilities, it's complicated to stay grounded with 15 settlers who want rooms as big as a airport, the fault of the lack of space...

[The Blind One]

Originally posted by biomike:

Z level mods just end up generating a new map thats 100% underground
They wont add z levels to the base game cause they will need to re-write a ton of code for pathing and shooting to work starting from scratch

I've only played a little with the Z levels mod but I believe it generates a new map when you go down but not when you go up. You can shoot and get shot at from a higher floor and even build guard towers. The problem is that the AI doesn't know how to path down into your base or know how to climb ladders to the 2nd floor. So you're only at risk of getting attacked at the ground level. That's one major hiccup in the mod. You can just hunker down in your basement or on a higher floor and you're completely safe.

However the mod does prove that it's not nearly as big of a challenge as some people may claim. It's certainly possible however it requires a rework of the base code in order for it to work smoothly and provide support. Again this might not be that big of a problem or even a good thing depending on the coders involved, it may even make the game run better if it is overhauled since the code is pretty old and inefficient.

2nd floors aren't going to need that much computation if you think about it. You're not adding a whole new map on top that needs full computations, you're only adding small sections to the areas of the base where you decide to build upwards. They are essentially small extensions. It doesn't require nearly as much computation as people think, it would be very minor actually to negligent if properly implemented.

Given the new gameplay options it gives and broadens the scope of potential base building and combat defense options, I think it's very much worth it. It would certainly spice things up when you're not forced to rely on killboxes to survive.

Lastly sadly you're really forced to build into mountains or build compound bases if you're playing with dirtmoles and its a bit of a shame that according to the lore, these guys live underground but there's literally no underground for them to live in

[Laurie]

There is a cave mod that makes the entire map inside a cave. I dont like it though

[Mnbfs6]

I dont know how to link them but i use deep rim (think that's what its called) which allows you to build a mine shaft, its basically just a second map of rocks, with a river if original map has one, not as good from a tech standpoint as z levels but works fine on 1.4.

[Playzr 🐵]

Last time I tried Z-Levels it had lots of issues. It was playable though. I think whoever made it hasn't updated it in a while but I haven't checked. Make sure it's compatible with the current version. The issues I had made it awkward to use properly.

[Ancamarth]

It appears from the feedback on the Z-mod that it does not really connect the game, the enemies, the existing and potential resources, with the vanilla version.
It's unfortunate, especially in terms of lore, with the mole men. But it's also a shame from a point of view:

- RP: you're in a world that can become devastated by pollution, robotic threats, insectoid bioweapons, raids, etc... why force us to deal with threats with rather stupid killboxes, which don't put value the AI at all, rather than being able to operate strategic withdrawals in bunkers for vulnerable people who have nothing to do on the battlefield?

- gameplay: manage bigger colonies, more settlers, resources, space, artificial farms, storage, etc.

[The Blind One]

Z levels would open up a lot of strategic depth imho.

Instead of killboxes we could have guard towers and our pawns up on the walls.

Sappers could be utilized to dig underneath walls and get into the base. Or have pawns rush forward with ladders to climb the walls.

More advanced raiders might use jetpacks to just fly over the walls instead of dealing with them.

Have siege equipment that directly targets the walls and guard towers specifically and you'll have to defend against a wall breach with enemies storming in.

Dirtmoles could finally live perpetually underground.

Vampires can have their secret hidden lairs underground or up in a castle tower.

So much depth you can do with proper implementation of Z levels.

[whatamidoing]

Originally posted by Ancamarth:

It appears from the feedback on the Z-mod that it does not really connect the game, the enemies, the existing and potential resources, with the vanilla version.
It's unfortunate, especially in terms of lore, with the mole men. But it's also a shame from a point of view:

- RP: you're in a world that can become devastated by pollution, robotic threats, insectoid bioweapons, raids, etc... why force us to deal with threats with rather stupid killboxes, which don't put value the AI at all, rather than being able to operate strategic withdrawals in bunkers for vulnerable people who have nothing to do on the battlefield?

- gameplay: manage bigger colonies, more settlers, resources, space, artificial farms, storage, etc.

There's nothing stopping you from not having vulnerable people in your killboxes or even making a bunker for them to hide in, and "bigger" and "more" also means more lag and higher requirements.

[Ancamarth]

Indeed, nothing prevents us from not wishing for more, or better, or more again.
But Rimworld is a great game that still benefits from improvements, updates, DLC... so expressing your expectations and desires to have even more fun with this game seems rather constructive and positive to me.
Free to those who do not want to:

- do not buy such DLC
- disable the option on the settings of their game...

;-)