OP base defense, required?

[Furry Eskimo]

From what I can tell, raids get pretty insane not long into the game, and the only way to survive is to exploit the AI’s path finding to form a killing chamber, or lock them in a cave and set them on fire..

Technically I can do this, but it feels, bad.. If the only feasible defense is the same one everyone else uses, then there isn’t much freedom of choice, and if the programmers feel the need to make the raids this huge because they know we can make OP defensive structures, are we just in a loop? Why don’t the raids only get so, huge, for people who exploit the AI, and the rest of us can enjoy not having 47 rabid wolves attack or 132 raiders with shotguns..

[Jaasrg]

Raid sizes&quality is colony wealth adjusted by difficulty thing.
So the loop would be to keep your fighting capable pawn numbers and equipment up while limiting the number of incapable for violence grandpa's your colony have.
Killboxes are used because easy to setup and efficient.

[Playzr 🐵]

The game always seems to try to send threats a bit bigger than you can handle so you have to pull off this amazing strategy to not get torn to pieces. It's a good thing there is this slider in the ESC menu to adjust the storyteller and scale the threats back to a more suitable level. I don't think the combat is the best part of the game and will tend to build a moat and kill box. I don't understand all these people who want raids to come and destroy half their base and kill half their colonists. And the raids can be too frequent. Like it is unreasonable that such a small colony would attract this many raiders in the hopes that they can steal this amount of wealth or smash it all to pieces. Clearly it's not worth it for the raiders, but we might as well have like an entire factions worth of people die in the kill box every few days because gameplay.

[JD]

Isn't it how this game is supposed to be played? There is a tutorial lesson on how to use traps that explains pathfinding. And for that reason, there are:

* Mid-base drops
* Breachers
* Siegers
* Infestations

[martindirt]

Just reduce threat lvl to around 80-85%.
That's the value, where you don't really need kill box.

[Cat®]

No, they're not. But higher the difficulty; higher the defensive requirements.

[Furry Eskimo]

I realize I can change the difficulty to a degree, but it seems weird to me how we’re attracting these impossibly massive raiding parties.. I mostly have a farm, why would I be attracting this level of attention? It seems impossible to build anything other than a fortress if you expect to survive. Using all my resources and time to make a massive exterior wall seems, jarring, compared to the quant and tiny town I thought it’d be able to build and defend. I quickly discovered that while I’m capable of defending against small raiding parties using carefully place walls and sandbags, even a semi-large raiding party Will take ground from you, so turrets on the perimeter are useless, and instead I needed to redesign the interior of my base for when they break in. That was problematic since it’s not like I designed back doors and escape routes all over the place, instead it’s like long corridors and someone will poke their head out, fire, the crowd goes towards them, someone else pokes their head out and fires, etc. Worse case scenario that’s what battles devolve into. Usually I can keep them at bay but it seems weird that 5+ turrets and 10+ people can’t hold their ground against a few people with knives. I elected to breed like, 20+ polar bears and it helped, but seriously, it seems really jarring that I’m quickly being forced to redesign everything just because weirdly enthusiastic raiders arrive every few days. My people do it even reliably have time to farm/mine. I don’t do much trading because it seems risky to leave the base for even a little while with the raiders, so I’m not totally clear on how I’m expected to reach further villages and get to the rocket.

[Playzr 🐵]

Surely if the raiders wanted your freezer full of rice that much it would be easier to work on a farm themselves than send hundreds of raiders to die. Ironically if you have the means to defend yourself from these massive raids that would only add to your wealth and send bigger raids. I find it hard to believe that these enemy factions have the resources to send this many raids to all the other little farm colonies to die over and over. If you multiply the number of raiders you're getting with the number of other friendly colonies that's an insane number, far greater than the entire population of the enemy colonies.
I just wish we could just defeat them, you know. That by sending so many people to die they would have fewer to send next time and we don't hear from the for a while. But they only get bigger and bigger.

[AngerIsAnEnergy]

There is a cooldown between raids, so use that time to send out trading caravan.

How to get to the ship? Be more nomadic. Use your little base to tech up your research, then pack it all up on pack animals and go mobile. Find suitable locations for temporary bases along the way, scrapping them when you leave for your next. Keep one base as a honeypot for raids - although as the wealth of that colony will be small the raid will be pathetic, but it means the raid is not where you are. It's a very different style of play which I've come to enjoy.

Or wall up, build a singularity killbox and make your own spaceship.

[Playzr 🐵]

Raids are too frequent to send out a caravan that would take days. The only way I'd leave a colony is if I had a cargo ship from Save Our Ship 2 which meant I'd be back later that evening. That and a big kill box with tons of turrets.

[martindirt]

Originally posted by Рlαγζr 🐵:

Raids are too frequent to send out a caravan that would take days. The only way I'd leave a colony is if I had a cargo ship from Save Our Ship 2 which meant I'd be back later that evening. That and a big kill box with tons of turrets.

I'm running military colonies with slaves because of this.
I'm recruiting as many soldiers I can, 1-2 scientists, 1 artist, 1-2 wardens (if any of these are decent soldiers too, that's makes it better).
All my other workers are slaves.
Usually I have 10+ soldiers just to protect the colony and a tacteam (5-10 soldiers) to go missions.

[Playzr 🐵]

Sounds like you like to play the bad guy. Whose raiding who.

[rvg]

Originally posted by Furry Eskimo:

Technically I can do this, but it feels, bad.. If the only feasible defense is the same one everyone else uses, then there isn’t much freedom of choice, and if the programmers feel the need to make the raids this huge because they know we can make OP defensive structures, are we just in a loop? Why don’t the raids only get so, huge, for people who exploit the AI, and the rest of us can enjoy not having 47 rabid wolves attack or 132 raiders with shotguns..

Killboxes are unnecessary. At higher difficulty levels (Strive and above) the player is expected to utilize asymmetric warfare, by which I mean mortars, launchers, mass psycasts.

Mortar shell doesn't care if it hits a raid of 20 or 200. If anything, larger numbers mean higher casualty rate for the raiders, forcing a rout that much sooner. Same with mass psycasts like Vertigo Pulse or Berserk Pulse. It is also important not to be stingy and invest and routinely use artifacts like Shock and Insanity Lances and Low Shield Packs. Those allow for quick and efficient neutralization of dangerous pawns carrying launchers.

I haven't used a killbox in ages.

[Vermillion Cardinal]

Difficulty changes and mods will help, as mentioned. I've got a threat limiter myself so I can enjoy a chill game with a bit of trespasser management.

Don't think too hard about it; it's a game design issue. Without it you'd be essentially playing Stardew Valley. The original game was mostly about people trying to get the hell off a thoroughly hostile hellhole before they got overrun, not settling down permanently. Tynan may have introduced more systems that allowed you to enjoy the colony-building aspects, but ever-growing raids being a reality of life never really changed.

Most non-raid related threats are manageable: with a reasonably good doctor and some herbal meds at minimum you can deal with illness, manhunters can be ignored by hiding behind walls, toxic fallout with roofs, and insects by staying outside mountains. Temperature is largely a non-issue in most biomes, and starvation only a real problem at the start.

If raids were too small they'd bounce pointlessly off your defenses, and if they were easily discouraged you'd have no combat at all. You could add natural disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes, but then you wouldn't have many ways to actively mitigate them, and if relied upon too much would face the same problem as raids. Having relentless mechs that care not for losses might be more believable, but who wants to fight only mechs? They're also more of a mid to late game threat anyway.

[Astasia]

Killboxes aren't exploiting any AI. They are a very basic strategy and the game gives you multiple tools for helping you create them, they are an intended mechanic and meant to be required on higher difficulties. Tynan did an interview a few years ago and he specifically said killboxes are meant to be a required mechanic on higher difficulties, but not the only mechanic. Killboxes are for normal raids, you need to use other strategies to deal with other threat types. If you don't like building defenses you can turn the difficulty down to the point they aren't required, it's up to you.

[Aranador]

Raids get as hard as you decide they should get - you have the options to change difficulties in what ever way will give you enjoyment. This is a single player game, and playing it in what ever way gives you fun, is generally the right way to play it. So set that difficulty to 500pct and restrict yourself to only naked fist fighters, or what ever it is you need for your entertainment.