Animal combat is weird.

[Smartik1]

My pet wolves are utterly useless in every scenario I've encountered so far (other animals too).

- Wolf pup fights a squirrel - ends up bleeding to death on the floor
- Wolf pup fights a rat - ends up bleeding to death on the floor
- Adult wolf fights a turkey - ends up bleeding to death with 14 injuries
- Adult wolf fights a boar - ends up bleeding to death

I have not yet seen a single animal fight where my animal with maxed out training and logically dominant combat stats walked away surviving. Every single scenario, they end up so damaged they bleed to death unless you rescue them. What's up with that?

Edit: aaaand as we speak, another adult wolf picked a fight with an Ibex and...is bleeding to death with a fully crushed paw. Unbelievable.

[Veylox]

I mean that's the point of bleeding to death, if you watch them do it they die

Imagine a rescuer coming to your house watching you die with an open wound and then say "what's up with that ?" instead of patching it

[MadArtillery]

Animals are more distracting fodder to throw at ranged enemies than effective. I've never had much success using wolves, squishy buggers that always die or lose a bunch of limbs in the first fight. A lot of animals could use a buff to their combat, at least the hauling ones do a pretty good job at logistics.

Elephants can be useful combatants but not much else animal wise. I prefer dryads over combat animals as they can't bleed to death and can regen missing limbs and scars, just solve their own infections too, can just not tend them at all most of the time.

[Veylox]

as for them losing to squirrel, you're probably just remembering whatever you wish instead of what happened. Even then, the best way to make sure the strongest wins is overwhelming power, not probability. Don't let things be decided by a coin flip when you can help it.

If you have 3 armed colonists and a single raider arrives, don't make it a 1v1.

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by Veylox:

as for them losing to squirrel, you're probably just remembering whatever you wish instead of what happened. Even then, the best way to make sure the strongest wins is overwhelming power, not probability. Don't let things be decided by a coin flip when you can help it.

If you have 3 armed colonists and a single raider arrives, don't make it a 1v1.

So much wrong with what you said.
1. It wasn't about "obviously you need to rescue them if they are dying", the point was they shouldn't be dying to begin with.
2. Losing to a squirrel is not remembering whatever I wish, I clearly said they picked the fight before adult stage.
3. It's not a coin flip, because coin flip is 50%. This is 100% fail rate. There is not a single fight they walk out of where they don't need rescuing.

If reality worked like this, wolves would have gone extinct globally in like a week. They can't hunt their food, no matter what they hunt, because they end up dying from wounds every single time (unless manually saved by someone else).

A predator shouldn't die to it's prey in every fight. That's not how predators work.

[MadArtillery]

Most predation in the game seems to work off an initial stun while they are hunting to save them some damage. I know wild animals do it, I don't know for 100% tamed animals do though cats are usually fine just hunting food so probably. If the wolves are for some reason not applying the stun, or simply too garbage at combat to win before the stun wears off, that is likely the issue. Wolves always have come off a super weak to me so it's probably the second option.

[ZombieGroan]

there is a mod that allows tamed animals to hunt on their own but only things they could win against. It also always them to hunt in packs to take on large animals. but you should always be treating any wounds. unless your like me and breed battle boars then eat those that die.

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by ZombieGroan:

there is a mod that allows tamed animals to hunt on their own but only things they could win against. It also always them to hunt in packs to take on large animals. but you should always be treating any wounds. unless your like me and breed battle boars then eat those that die.

Got the mod name?

[marcusaddamsson]

Yea, you really wanna upgrade to Bears or something larger. Wolves/dogs are pretty weak in this game. I've had maps where I keep bears, and then never feed 'em. They'd roam about killing stuff for food, and I would rarely even notice any injuries.

But in general... I fell out of love with keeping animals for offense. They're great in certain situations, but since you can't micro their movements... they're always in the way: gettin' shot in the back by your own people, locked in deadly melee combat when they don't need to be, etc. Plus, training animals takes a goodly amount of colonists' time (which is the real downside to dog/wolf ownership).

[Juggalo Furry]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3108751042

Can vouch for bears, you have to use them right i think. You need to use them aggressive but the real key is timing when you release them.
They arent anvils they are hammers, get the enemy to focus on moving towards your other pawns you dont want to release them on to enemies who will target them enmass as they approach

[Astasia]

The squirrel was probably larger than your "wolf pup." Your "logically dominant" concepts don't really work in this game, the "balance" between animals is a lot tighter than in reality. RimWorld squirrels are the size of real dogs, RimWorld elephants are the size of real ponies, there aren't too many "safe" fights between animals and you will constantly see predators dying on the map especially with how bleeding works. A turkey is basically an even match for a wolf in this game, the only way they come out safely on top in that fight is if they get their predator stun off and kill it before it can fight back, otherwise it's likely to be a pyrrhic victory.

If you don't want to constantly patch up your wolves, feed them so they don't have to go out and risk their lives fighting something nearly the same size as them. Bears and cougars usually have better odds hunting, but you still probably want to patch them up when they are injured to reduce infections.

Animals are balanced around human combat. Squirrels/rabbits/rats are large enough to pose some danger to a human without having to spawn hundreds of them, 2 squirrels have a higher "combat power" in this game than an unarmored human with a knife. Elephants are small enough so they don't instantly one shot your colonists like a real elephant would, and you can actually "melee tank" them while other colonists shoot at them for example. This results in very whacky animal sizes and strengths, but it's easily explained away by this being a scifi game on a distant exoplanet thousands of years in the future, these just simply are not the same creatures we expect them to be, either through mutation or genetic tampering.

[Antearz]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

My pet wolves are utterly useless in every scenario I've encountered so far (other animals too).

- Wolf pup fights a squirrel - ends up bleeding to death on the floor
- Wolf pup fights a rat - ends up bleeding to death on the floor
- Adult wolf fights a turkey - ends up bleeding to death with 14 injuries
- Adult wolf fights a boar - ends up bleeding to death

I have not yet seen a single animal fight where my animal with maxed out training and logically dominant combat stats walked away surviving. Every single scenario, they end up so damaged they bleed to death unless you rescue them. What's up with that?

Edit: aaaand as we speak, another adult wolf picked a fight with an Ibex and...is bleeding to death with a fully crushed paw. Unbelievable.

Well Yes.
Wolves are Pretty Weak to begin with. They are Pack Hunters for a Reason.
Especially on some Alien World were Squirrels are 12kg Heavy Mutants.
Funny enough. Elephants meanwhile are just 240kg which is basicly really Cute.
(For Reference a Squirrel on Earth has about 0.5kg while an Elephant has up to 6000kg)

And Yes. One Reason why in Reality as well. Predator Animals will often Stalk Prey and go after Young or Injured Prey Animals rather than Attacking Adults.
Is because for Animals which have no Bandages or Antibiotics. Any small Injury can end up Lethal.


Wolves in Rimworld are Attack Animals. They have fairly high Damage. But not much Defense. They are meant to be used in a Pack to Send after Enemies so they can Overwhelm that Enemy Quickly while more Sturdy Animals actually Tank that Enemy.
They are not meant to be Send into 1 vs 1s.


If You want Animals which are alot Stronger on a Solo Scale.
Bears, Wargs and Panthers are pretty Powerful even on their own.

But alot easier to get is Elephants because they can be Tamed withoit going Manhunter.
Elephants will also Crush almost any other Animal in a 1 vs 1 Fight.

Other very Strong Animals are Megasloth´s and Rhino´s but they are more Risky to Obtain.
Because Taming them can Result in Aggression. And they also Require a very high Animal Handling Skill to even Attempt Taming.

The Absolute King however is Thrumbo´s of course.
Being Insanely Strong but also very Difficult to get a Breeding Pair off.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

My pet wolves are utterly useless in every scenario I've encountered so far (other animals too).

- Wolf pup fights a squirrel - ends up bleeding to death on the floor
- Wolf pup fights a rat - ends up bleeding to death on the floor
- Adult wolf fights a turkey - ends up bleeding to death with 14 injuries
- Adult wolf fights a boar - ends up bleeding to death

I have not yet seen a single animal fight where my animal with maxed out training and logically dominant combat stats walked away surviving. Every single scenario, they end up so damaged they bleed to death unless you rescue them. What's up with that?

Edit: aaaand as we speak, another adult wolf picked a fight with an Ibex and...is bleeding to death with a fully crushed paw. Unbelievable.

Keep in mind that Rimworld Squirrels and Rats are huge.

A Rimworld Squirrel is 12kg, most squirrels irl not even being half a kg.
Same with Rimworld Rats (12kg, most irl rats not even being half a kg).

There is no small critters in Rimworld.

Anyway, just tend their wounds.

[Red Bat]

There's a reason many people consider the animal stat borderline useless.

Combat animals are in a weird place right now due to power creep of other features. You either REALLY lean into using them, or they are just worse options than most comparable mechanics. You can have like 50 rats to distract enemies, but that's a lot of time spent training rats. You could have a few elephants for blocking purposes, but they still take a while to train. Megaspiders are at least comparable to Mechanoids in terms of upkeep/power, but taming them in the first place is a pain, and you can't breed them. Most other animals are inefficient at actual combat either due to low stats or high maintenance, but can be made to work at least as distractions.

That said, a Yttakin or an animal pulser can still render animals an effective distraction even without any training.

[endymionologist]

All combat outcomes in the game are basically determined by the combat slow/stun mechanic and by the way consciousness works, which heavily favors the combatant that gets the first hit and (for melee) whichever has the fastest melee attack speed. Varmints have the fastest melee attack speeds, so when they initiate 1-on-1 combat they usually do a lot of damage and sometimes win, even though they are weak and fragile (and in fact the animal that seems to kill the most predators is the turtle, because in practice it can't be one-shotted).
In the combats you describe, are these 'mad squirrel' events? Because if the squirrel is ambushing a puppy in a rage I would expect it to win; adult prey animals in the real world that are protecting young can proactively attack predators to great effect and if you have a puppy yourself you should not let it chase squirrels too freely.

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by endymionologist:

All combat outcomes in the game are basically determined by the combat slow/stun mechanic and by the way consciousness works, which heavily favors the combatant that gets the first hit and (for melee) whichever has the fastest melee attack speed. Varmints have the fastest melee attack speeds, so when they initiate 1-on-1 combat they usually do a lot of damage and sometimes win, even though they are weak and fragile (and in fact the animal that seems to kill the most predators is the turtle, because in practice it can't be one-shotted).
In the combats you describe, are these 'mad squirrel' events? Because if the squirrel is ambushing a puppy in a rage I would expect it to win; adult prey animals in the real world that are protecting young can proactively attack predators to great effect and if you have a puppy yourself you should not let it chase squirrels too freely.

It's not a mad event, it's a "i'm hungry imma kill something" scenario. I didn't work out kibble yet at that point. I looked into why they keep getting owned before realizing they can only eat meat based stuff.