Tunneler on sea ice: am i stupid or it is actually good?

[Ivanchin55]

Basically, i run a sea ice tribe colony with custom xenotypes, trying to survive in -80, all that stuff. My ideology is fluid, so i tried experimenting with some memes, particularly tunneler. The thing is there no growable zone outside because -80 temperature, and so, there is no light for the crops without sun lamp, and sun lamp is consuming alot of energy, so i just thought: why not growing mushrooms on hydroponics? i consume only 280 watts of power to completely sustain one generator that produces 1000. And then i thought that on sea ice you almost always just sit and research IN BASE. So why not add tunneler meme, get a free buff from mushrooms and never worry about food AND power ever again? Am i stupid or it just works?

[Triple G]

I guess if You do hydroponics - rice is still the thing to do, as it has the most yield of all crops per time. Corn has the most yield per work time, but doesn´t work in hydroponics.

The thing about fungus is that it grows on the soil which You can "construct" under a mountain. They wouldn´t benefit from the super soil in the hydroponics, due to fertility sensitivity.

If You do rice - with the standard setup - it should sustain itself and have additional yield.

Also tunneler adds an indoor need - so without actual mountain You´d never get it above 50% under a thin roof. While without it You never get above 50% without going outdoors, so it´s even.

And lastly - they´re basically like potatoes, but without light, so any pawn will work slower without light. You´d need to add the darkness precepts to change that.

It probably would work - but i don´t think it´s worth it without mountain. You don´t even need the meme to plant it into hydroponics. The meme then only makes it so that You get a mood buff from eating it. Like the meme only adds the soil...

If You plan to plant it into hydroponics anyways - You could rather setup some hydroponics in dark areas with the fungus - to make chemfuel out of them. No meme needed. That´s Your general power, and then You do the standard swastika setup with the sunlamp - and either power it via chemfuel reactors and batteries, or solar panels and batteries. While using the fungus to make chemfuel, without the sunlamp - isn´t the worst idea at all, but rice gives You more than double the yield per day, so the hydroponics are a bit wasted after You could afford a sunlamp.

[Steelfleece]

Tunneler meme is always maybe too useful. It's pretty much easy mode - even on perfectly flat maps, everyone'll be happy being cooped up inside in small rooms, will be happy to eat fungus and insect meat but won't suffer without, and on non-flat maps you get the mining yield bonus. Add in the fungal gravel and bam.

[Triple G]

With tunneler meme You get a mood debuff if the people don´t eat fungus - that´s basically the downside of it.

For insect meat You don´t need the tunneler meme i guess - You can set it it "loved" with any setup, but with tunneler it´s automatically enabled. Of course making a fine meal out of fungus and insect meat gives a nice mood buff then.

And about easy mode - and always helpful. It´s probably human supremacy - while it has no downside, except that You can´t bond animals. For harsh maps pain is virtue is good, as it removes most mood debuffs from temperature, and You don´t need to build any tables or chairs for anybody - and comfort doesn´t matter. Downside would be to have one scar, which adds a bit of pain, so Your people would go down a bit faster in fights - and if You use the age reversal ritual of anomaly - it would heal these scars, so You need to re-apply them...

What makes tunneler good for tribal starts is that it also enabled stone cutting from the getgo.

[AldouzTek]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Downside would be to have one scar, which adds a bit of pain, so Your people would go down a bit faster in fights - and if You use the age reversal ritual of anomaly - it would heal these scars, so You need to re-apply them...

I remember there's even a song about it
Scar issue
I forgot the name of the band
xD

[Triple G]

Originally posted by AldouzTek:

I remember there's even a song about it
Scar issue
I forgot the name of the band
xD

There are probably a couple. ;o)
This one doesn´t work with the blindness meme though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrj6m-woUVo

[Ivanchin55]

Originally posted by Triple G:

I guess if You do hydroponics - rice is still the thing to do, as it has the most yield of all crops per time. Corn has the most yield per work time, but doesn´t work in hydroponics.

The thing about fungus is that it grows on the soil which You can "construct" under a mountain. They wouldn´t benefit from the super soil in the hydroponics, due to fertility sensitivity.

If You do rice - with the standard setup - it should sustain itself and have additional yield.

Also tunneler adds an indoor need - so without actual mountain You´d never get it above 50% under a thin roof. While without it You never get above 50% without going outdoors, so it´s even.

And lastly - they´re basically like potatoes, but without light, so any pawn will work slower without light. You´d need to add the darkness precepts to change that.

It probably would work - but i don´t think it´s worth it without mountain. You don´t even need the meme to plant it into hydroponics. The meme then only makes it so that You get a mood buff from eating it. Like the meme only adds the soil...

If You plan to plant it into hydroponics anyways - You could rather setup some hydroponics in dark areas with the fungus - to make chemfuel out of them. No meme needed. That´s Your general power, and then You do the standard swastika setup with the sunlamp - and either power it via chemfuel reactors and batteries, or solar panels and batteries. While using the fungus to make chemfuel, without the sunlamp - isn´t the worst idea at all, but rice gives You more than double the yield per day, so the hydroponics are a bit wasted after You could afford a sunlamp.

The thing is, i have darkness precept, and a offmap sunblocker, so sunlamps are basically a -4 mood for me, and also if i eat fungus normaly (without precept) i get -4 for nutrient paste AND -3 for fungus, so it -7 basically forever, but with tunneler i will get only -1 without need for neutral supercharger, sleep accelerator and biosculptor. It is more a mood thing than anything else. But, eventually i might kill apocriton and get some wastepack atomisers and use only toxifier generators for power, and then, mabye get blindsight meme for psychic sensitivity in exchange for bionic eyes
Also if someone interested, right now my ideology is: supremacist, proselytier, human primacy with body mod approved, cannibalism prefered, and combat in darkness as precept, not a meme

[Chibi Life]

Sea ice is always flat with no hills or mountains. You probably mean ice sheet

[Triple G]

Ah okay - so basically You´re already more advanced in the colony. I thought You´re talking tunneler as first meme, but it´s basically the last You can get, if You don´t get rid of another.

I mean if it works for You - why not. I just mentioned up and downsides for it. While tunneler is one of these with little downsides - but it´s not always super beneficial either. Like i for myself would rather only use it for mountain bases to get the most out of it, and to fit the theme. And usually i try to tackle any offmap thingies as soon as possible. Sunblocker might even be beneficial for You there, but i usually get physic suppression or such stuff, which is like the worst case thing.

As it´s fluid, You can change it later anyways if You want to. Or keep it...

[Ivanchin55]

Originally posted by Chibi Life:

Sea ice is always flat with no hills or mountains. You probably mean ice sheet

nope, i mean sea ice, the thing i am confused about is how much debuf i will get for staying in normal roof but not overhead mountain, and does buff from mushrooms and no debuf from cramped spaces will give me more mood. i mean, on sea ice you already try to sit in house as much as possible to minimise hypotermia, right?

[Triple G]

It is at 50%. So not more than 50% if You don´t go under a overhead mountain. That´s a -3 debuff. The fungus gives +3 mood.

I personally never had the debuff for cramped spaces, except for early game prisoners in some tiny room.

As said above, pain is virtue gets rid of slept in the cold or heat, so You don´t need heaters except for work speed, You already have supremacist, but it would also get rid of the corpse debuff, You get rid of the debuff from the tables, and You get a mood buff for pain - which involves the scarification. You wouldn´t get additional mood from comfort any more, but You can build the other bed, which gives +2 or +3 - don´t remember. Like if You´ve got an endgame colony - and power and materials don´t matter, this meme might not be good - but else it saves power and resources, as You don´t need cooling or heating in the bedrooms, no end tables, no dressers, no tables, no chairs. So basically the meme gives You a permanent + 6 mood buff for the scar and the bed - while You wouldn´t get the like +8 for comfort any more, while it eliminates most sources for mood debuffs - and as soon as You feel more pain - the people get a better mood, which usually cancels out the debuff from lacking recreation. I´m unsure if there´s a better meme for mood than this - which works in any playthrough.

[Ivanchin55]

Originally posted by Triple G:

It is at 50%. So not more than 50% if You don´t go under a overhead mountain. That´s a -3 debuff. The fungus gives +3 mood.

I personally never had the debuff for cramped spaces, except for early game prisoners in some tiny room.

As said above, pain is virtue gets rid of slept in the cold or heat, so You don´t need heaters except for work speed, You already have supremacist, but it would also get rid of the corpse debuff, You get rid of the debuff from the tables, and You get a mood buff for pain - which involves the scarification. You wouldn´t get additional mood from comfort any more, but You can build the other bed, which gives +2 or +3 - don´t remember. Like if You´ve got an endgame colony - and power and materials don´t matter, this meme might not be good - but else it saves power and resources, as You don´t need cooling or heating in the bedrooms, no end tables, no dressers, no tables, no chairs. So basically the meme gives You a permanent + 6 mood buff for the scar and the bed - while You wouldn´t get the like +8 for comfort any more, while it eliminates most sources for mood debuffs - and as soon as You feel more pain - the people get a better mood, which usually cancels out the debuff from lacking recreation. I´m unsure if there´s a better meme for mood than this - which works in any playthrough.

Well, pain doesn't matter for me at all bc i almost always try to give everyone a painstopper. it's just too good gor me, my pawns with tough trait are war gods with is, so in the end i don't get debuf from pain anyway, and also i dont use bedrooms, because i have no sleep gene on everyone exept creepjoiners, so bed buf doesn't matter also. Anyway, i already pick blindsight XD (blindness: respected). Turns out that with deep drills you have all the plasteel you ever need for bionic eyes lol. Gonna make everyone a psycaster now

[Triple G]

Yes - only thing which is missing after having deep drills are components - till You find the first gold ore that is, which might take some time. Else the deep drills basically provide You with unlimited resources. I´m unsure about stones on sea ice though - but on any other biome i´d have 4 deep drills (most of which are forbidden, and would only be activated when i need them). One for stone type 1, one for type 2, one for steel, and one for the rest - which is effectively only platsteel and gold, as i rarely use uranium or jade.

Good luck. ;o)

[Ivanchin55]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Yes - only thing which is missing after having deep drills are components - till You find the first gold ore that is, which might take some time. Else the deep drills basically provide You with unlimited resources. I´m unsure about stones on sea ice though - but on any other biome i´d have 4 deep drills (most of which are forbidden, and would only be activated when i need them). One for stone type 1, one for type 2, one for steel, and one for the rest - which is effectively only platsteel and gold, as i rarely use uranium or jade.

Good luck. ;o)

Thanks :)